Exchanging Places

[subaqua]

Or perhaps we need to keep trucks which are so dangerous due to lack of visibility out of areas like city centers and more harshly prosecute those who drive them without due care and attention, such as on a mobile phone.

Fully agree with the prosecuting piss poor driving , can you tell me how we get goods to stores in city centres without moving the problem to the night when a good proportion of cyclists are still using the roads , or do only daytime cyclists matter. Or are you happy to pay the environmental price as well as the financial price for moving to smaller multiple deliveries.

Maybe education of ALL road users might work. Remove the MGIF attitude from ALL sections of road user that endangers ALL.

 

[glenn forger]

Broken lights, not reflectors:

The police inspections have already resulted in 243 HGV drivers being fined for driving without a licence or for remaining behind the wheel for long hours with taking a rest break.

The fines also covered other lorry drivers found to have broken lights or be carrying loads not properly secured, as well as driving vehicles which had not been properly or regularly maintained.

A total of 14 lorries have been seized by police officers in the spot checks.

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/legal_...thtrap_lorries_on_roads_(8_January_2014).html

The cops don't seize vehicles for broken reflectors.

 

[glenn forger]

Fully agree with the prosecuting piss poor driving , can you tell me how we get goods to stores in city centres without moving the problem to the night when a good proportion of cyclists are still using the roads , or do only daytime cyclists matter. Or are you happy to pay the environmental price as well as the financial price for moving to smaller multiple deliveries.

Maybe education of ALL road users might work. Remove the MGIF attitude from ALL sections of road user that endangers ALL.

Half of all the HGVs on the road are running empty. Thirty different recycling trucks service Regent Street alone. A huge number of HGV trips in the capital are pointless, wasteful and can easily be substituted with other, less lethal solutions.

 

[mjr]

Fully agree with the prosecuting piss poor driving , can you tell me how we get goods to stores in city centres without moving the problem to the night when a good proportion of cyclists are still using the roads , or do only daytime cyclists matter. Or are you happy to pay the environmental price as well as the financial price for moving to smaller multiple deliveries.

We should use vehicles which CAN see where they're going and if they're about to drive over anyone. Mercedes-Benz and Dennis both already have designs that can, but they don't use them on many vehicles because the deadly ones are cheaper.

I think it would also help if we can disentangle delivery networks from key cycling networks where possible. Fewer cyclists than usual seem to be killed around shopping areas that have service roads. That's not going to be possible everywhere, but it's probably still worth doing when we can.

Protected space (or "segregation" to its opponents even when it's not) probably has little to offer here. A small kerb, bollards or even the giant discuses won't stop many large vehicles from cutting across corners.

 

[classic33]

Used to cycle on part of the A58, through a notorious road junction(five way crossroads) , that still sees heavy usage by HGV's. Along the route was a builders supply site with theirs & other vehicles using the road.

Add to that, local factories getting deliveries at all hours, and the number of lorries on the road can't be ignored.
Problems on the motorway, led to an increase in the amount of traffic passing.

We, like them are traffic. We need to realise that.

 

[subaqua]

Broken lights, not reflectors:

The police inspections have already resulted in 243 HGV drivers being fined for driving without a licence or for remaining behind the wheel for long hours with taking a rest break.

The fines also covered other lorry drivers found to have broken lights or be carrying loads not properly secured, as well as driving vehicles which had not been properly or regularly maintained.

A total of 14 lorries have been seized by police officers in the spot checks.

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/legal_...thtrap_lorries_on_roads_(8_January_2014).html

The cops don't seize vehicles for broken reflectors.

Didn't realise a broken light in daylight means the driver is a killer. Silly me . Clutching at straws again Glenn .

If the police stopped 34 consecutive lorries and found 23 defects then I would be worried but targeted operations to give skewed figures are not helpful

 

[glenn forger]

Operation Mermaid wasn't targeted. It was random.

Let me try another tack, if construction vehicles are more than twenty times more likely to kill cyclists than other vehicles, do you think it means that cyclists behave twenty times MORE recklessly around construction vehicles, or does any other scenario occur to you?

 

[classic33]

Operation Mermaid wasn't targeted. It was random.

Let me try another tack, if construction vehicles are more than twenty times more likely to kill cyclists than other vehicles, do you think it means that cyclists behave twenty times MORE recklessly around construction vehicles, or does any other scenario occur to you?

And if you are forced off the road more by delivery wagons more than you you are construction vehicles, which is worse?

However neither your question nor mine, in response, have very much to do with the OP.
Do they?

 

[glenn forger]

Construction vehicles:

of the 16 cyclist fatalities in the capital in 2011, nine involved a heavy goods vehicle (HGV), even though HGVs make up only around 3% of traffic. Of these nine, seven were construction vehicles, despite the fact construction makes up only a small proportion of freight traffic.

Gilligan, a well-known journalist and blogger -who was appointed in January by the mayor to oversee cycling policy amid a huge rise in the number of cyclists on London’s roads - is in no doubt that the industry holds the key to stopping the killing. He complains that many construction vehicles are not fitted with side guards to protect cyclists, which cost just “a few hundred pounds”.

I wouldn’t say there’s denial but among clients, there is a feeling of ‘this isn’t my problem’

Matt Mason, Cycle 2 Cannes

“Supermarket lorries have sides that go down to the road surface so you cannot get dragged under the wheels,” Gilligan says. “These seven deaths [caused by construction lorries in 2011] involved construction vehicles not fitted with side bars. It’s always the same … the mayor is deeply concerned about the disproportionate number of deaths caused by lorries and particularly construction lorries.”

http://www.building.co.uk/mean-streets-cyclists-safety/5063159.article

 

[Scoosh]

MOD NOTE:
Please avoid going over the same ground which has been covered in many other threads and stick to the OP.

Also avoid personal comments.

Thank you.

 

[subaqua]

I give up. Let Glenn continue in his misguided beliefs that all big lorries are scary killers and cyclists never ever put themselves in the stupidest places. Because I never watched 4 go exactly where they shouldn't this morning. Or maybe the lorry traversed the temporal constraints and moved away till the cyclists were at the side when it came back from gallifrey or wherever it went. Oh and it was a keltbray. Who sat there and waited for the death wishers to move, before he moved.

Anecdotal I suppose so will be dismissed as " not evidence" but who cares , I can't be bothered any more if people want to ride like fools then let em. Clears the gene pool of stupids.

Maybe they are the cyclists that need to be educated.

 

[glenn forger]

I give up. Let Glenn continue in his misguided beliefs that all big lorries are scary killers and cyclists never ever put themselves in the stupidest places.

Never said that, or anything like it. For what it's worth it wasn't me who complained about abuse either, but please argue with what I've said instead of stuff you've made up.

"Clears the gene pool of stupids" That's a bit tasteless. The penalty for making a mistake shouldn't be death.

 

[subaqua]

Never said that, or anything like it. For what it's worth it wasn't me who complained about abuse either, but please argue with what I've said instead of stuff you've made up.

"Clears the gene pool of stupids" That's a bit tasteless. The penalty for making a mistake shouldn't be death.

so you agree going up the inside of things is a mistake.

I tried earlier to not give a feck , but on broadway market on the way home another thoughtless cyclist thought they would be able to get in front of a larger vehicle by trying to sneak down the inside into a rapidly shrinking gap.

apparently I am a " kin busybody " but from a tragic hispter that didn't hurt me. I imagine if he had been squished that would of.

 

[glenn forger]

so you agree going up the inside of things is a mistake.

Emphatically not, especially since that's where a lot of lanes are painted. Taking a vehicle on the roads that doesn't have mirrors fitted that obviate blind spots is the important thing to focus on. How come fleet drivers of HGVs have nowhere near the appalling safety record of construction lorries? What's so special about construction lorries that when they kill, routinely, we flap our gums about the behaviour of the victim? Isn't it better to stop people dying than argue about blame? "Clears the gene pool of stupids" could apply to speeding drivers, which is almost three quarters of all drivers. That's a lot of dead people. Better, surely, to stop people getting killed in the first place.?

 

[Mugshot]

Ignoring, if that's possible, the whole education vs visibility vs dodgy lorry drivers debate for a moment. I do found it rather surprising how willing some cyclists are to go up the inside, I find the buggers scary enough when I'm in the car never mind on the bike and would much rather stay as far away as possible.

Yes I know this doesn't stop them pulling up next to you.