Fidel Castro RIP

[Brains]

Not gay people obviously though eh?

He "disappeared" more than twice as people as Pinochet, is that the kind of "success" you admire?

There's only one officially recognised Union in Cuba and no worker is allowed to strike, is that a way to a better life for ordinary people - successful socialism? http://survey.ituc-csi.org/Summary-Cuba.html

Seriously, the man did one thing in his life that endears him to left wingers the world over - told the US to eff off and, supported with free money from the Soviet Union, he kept this up for decades whilst his people starved (Cubans are still on rations for heaven's sake). How on earth is that making life better for ordinary people?

How can any society be lauded when hundreds of thousands of its people risk death escaping - the people who actually had to live under a dictatorship with no free press or free elections or the basic human freedom to leave? Easy to stroke your chin humming the Internationale when you don't actually have to live with the consequences.

Pinochet was only in power for 8 years, Castro was in power for over half a century, so 'disappeared' per year works out a lot less, substantially less that many other totalitarian societies, (probably substantially less than the USA over the same period)

Shortages in Cuba: Most of that is down to US trade embargo, the comparison should be made to other Caribbean nations who have not sold their sole to the Oil, Offshore banking or Tourism, such as Guyana, Jamaica, Haiti, etc.

One of the big US issues is if Cuba has free trade, then it would only be a few years before it economically overtakes not only Puerto Rico but also several of the southern states of the USA.

Imagine a Cuba when the rich of the USA find a palm fringed Caribbean island with one of the best (and cheapest) health systems on the planet where they can while away their retirement whilst sipping on rum overlooking the sea from the (cheap) condo, all within 3 hours flying time of Houston or New York.

Who would be left in that large crime ridden, over populated, sinking sandspit that is Florida ?

My guess is the USA needs to now look very urgently at 'Liberating' Cuba, and ensuring they keep the island dependent on them.

Disneyland Havana anyone ?

 

[threebikesmcginty]

"Although responsible for indefensible human rights and free speech abuses...."

Would anyone else get the same praise if it included that.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Seriously, that's crap. Seriously, the regime, for all its undoubted faults, among other things, raised literacy rates from 23% in 1959 to 100%, increased life expectancy from 58 to 78, reduced infant deaths per thousand to 4.7 (significantly below the US rate of 7/1000) and increased the number of doctors from 6,300 to 70,000. Yes, there's been political repression, but to suggest that the government has done nothing other than tell the US where to stick it is utter nonsense.

Check your figures.

In 1950, literacy rates in Cuba were just under 80% according to UNESCO and had been increasing by steady increments from over 40% in 1900 http://www.unesco.org/education/GMR2006/full/chapt8_eng.pdf
Not so different from Chile either, almost identical literacy rates in 1950 and only a few % in it now.

Castro can't take credit for life expectancy either -

Cuba from 1900 to 1959 raised life expectancy and reduced infant mortality faster than any other Latin American country for which data are available. It accomplished this feat despite being ruled by a series of governments best known for personalism, patronage, corruption, mismanagement, toadying to US business interests, and neglect, at best, of the exploited and downtrodden. To make matters worse, Cuba from 1900 to 1959 experienced slow economic growth, high income inequality, inadequate provision of safe water and sanitation, a scarcity of rural health facilities and health personnel, and rampant corruption and maladministration, not least in the health sector.

http://lasa.international.pitt.edu/Lasa2003/McGuireJames.pdf

As to Doctors,

In the 1950s the number of doctors per thousand of the population ranked above Britain, France and the Netherlands. In Latin America it ranked in third place after Uruguay and Argentina.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba

All in all we get a picture of a country that since 1900 had exceptional levels of healthcare and education which were all rising steadily. These seem to be natural and highly laudable traits of the Cuban people. To suggest that Castro is responsible is frankly laughable.

To say that packing gays off to concentration camps and murdering thousands are merely "faults" is a sick joke.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Would anyone else get the same praise if it included that.

I expect to see them lauding Mugabe in the same terms

 

[GrumpyGregry]

A deeply flawed hero.
-or-
A villain with some redeeming features.

How you see him says more about your views than it does about him.

 

[srw]

Would anyone else get the same praise if it included that.

I seem to remember that Margaret Thatcher did....

(although her acolytes weren't so keen to acknowledge the human rights and free speech abuses)

 

[Stephenite]

I'm not sure how much credit or blame we can put on one man for a countrys success and failings over several decades.

I thought he was cool though, and i'm sad to see him go.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Didn't the CIA hatch some devilish plot to feed him chemicals that would make his beard fall off?

It was the great Operation Immac disaster launched by President Cape Kennedy from a grassy knoll. It was in the end a close shave for the CIA.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I seem to remember that Margaret Thatcher did....

Well there we go, birds of a feather then.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

What about his hat?

Which was mentioned in my OP.

 

[slowmotion]

What about his hat?

Which was mentioned in my OP.

The peak must have smelled pretty strongly of cigar smoke. Is it being bid for on Ebay yet?

 

[Cycleops]

Already got one.

Bet you've also got the Che Guevara beret with the star on the front too.

 

[Dayvo]

Bet you've also got the Che Guevara beret with the star on the front too.

View attachment 152672

The best Marmion could do was this:

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Bet you've also got the Che Guevara beret with the star on the front too.

View attachment 152672

I ordered a beret this week from Spain, no star on the front though nor a leather band. I reckon @Dayvo is right in that I'll probably look a bit like Frank Spencer but in my mind this will be the scene...

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Gotta love the Fidel supporters club.