Filtering Masterclass, Please

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I too generally hang back, but there has been the odd occasion where I too have aimed for an ASL and found it full. Usually with a car. :rolleyes: I don't think there is a problem then taking a position just in front of the ASL, and I have done that.

I can't see any such issue in Hackers video. Anyway I think I'd better not make any more comments about the video.

That's because you know it all.

Thats the last I say on the matter.
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
Two things to say about riding alongside and between lines of traffic. ( Some call it 'filtering' ).

1/ If you think it could be dangerous, don't do it.
2/ If you think it is safe, proceed with caution.

Err to option 1/ until you have gained experience to make quicker decisions.
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
Two things to say about riding alongside and between lines of traffic. ( Some call it 'filtering' ).

1/ If you think it could be dangerous, don't do it.
2/ If you think it is safe, proceed with caution.

Err to option 1/ until you have gained experience to make quicker decisions.

Jimb, that is possibly the best summary of "filtering" I've seen. (With all Due respect to Origamist and his writing skill...)

I shall remember those 2 laws.

 

potsy

Rambler
Location
My Armchair
Blimey,something has rattled Hackers cage hasn't it?
Can't see anything wrong with Magna(Dave's)toms comments tbh,he gave his opinion and you got upset when it was a slight criticism of your riding.
There looked to be plenty of room/time to stop at the lights,and you wanted to go way past the ASL.
As for the OP of the video,well you were riding exactly the same as the girl so I don't see the point in criticising her if you are going to do the same
wacko.gif
 
Im really saddened that you all think I cycle like that all the time but why should I be surprised with some boarders on here?

Shame most of you are too stupid to actually not be able to work this out.

I also say again you don't actually know those lights but you take to criticise constantly with magnatom actually saying I was going to jump them.Seems like he doesn't believe my story but why should I expect anything different from him?

Im not going to post on here anymore of which you may all be relieved about.
 
It may surprise you Hackbike, but I am deeply sorry that you are leaving. I hope that you take stock of what happened and change your mind. To be honest, I don't care how you feel about me, there are those who think what I do is great, and there are those that think I'm a complete *!£$"!£". That's life.

What you said publically about me was out of order, however, it's water off a ducks back to me, and I hope that the BANNED word next to your account isn't true and certainly not on my account.

I would like to clarify a couple of things. At no point did I say that you cycle like that all the time. In fact I am sure you don't. What I actually thought had happened is that you saw someone riding badly and wanted to catch it on camera. In the process you 'forgot yourself' in rode below your normal standard. It's an easy trap to fall into and one I have probably done myself.

I also didn't assume that you were going to jump the lights. You already had. By passing the stop line I would count that as a jump. Others may define RLJing differently.

At no point was anything I said meant personally.

Whatever you do, take care and cycle carefully.
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
Personally, if its any consolation, I don't give a toss how anyone else rides through the traffic.

Well that's a lie. I do. Saturday morning, returning from Brum, I got stuck behind a pair of Flourocoat hybridians.
One blocked the curbside and the other blocked the centre. The outside was a no-no 'cus of oncoming vehicles and I couldn't get round.

There was LOADS of room up the centre. A tank could have got through. I coughed and sneezed falsely to let him know I wanted to come through but he just stood there waiting.

I'm half expecting a 'Ping'. I was on the little brown BSA. :biggrin:


I almost left this forum because of an argument about 'Primary' position. That's all forgotten now. ;)
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
Im really saddened that you all think I cycle like that all the time but why should I be surprised with some boarders on here?

Shame most of you are too stupid to actually not be able to work this out.

I also say again you don't actually know those lights but you take to criticise constantly with magnatom actually saying I was going to jump them.Seems like he doesn't believe my story but why should I expect anything different from him?

Im not going to post on here anymore of which you may all be relieved about.

Hackers. Running away and sulking (or perhaps feeling sorry for yourself would be a better description) isn’t going to solve anything.

Everyone (Or at least I assume everyone) knows you don’t ride like that all the time. Besides, I don’t actually think there was a lot wrong with the riding you undertook that day (or the riding you caught on cam) it seemed a little like the usual stuff I see (and do) myself most rides.

I once made a pathetic mistake of posting footage from my blackberry on this forum (do you recall?). It only occurred to me after the event how stupid I'd been. Other's "helpfully" reminded me of that and although it was embarrassing, we all got over it and I don’t for one minute assume that everyone imagines me driving about the place talking on my phone or filming etc all the time.

Cheer up old fella, no one has it in for you and you'll be missed if you don’t keep posting.
:sad:
 
I almost left this forum because of an argument about 'Primary' position. That's all forgotten now. ;)

I'm sure glad you didnt as I follow your advice closely. Hope Hackers can return also.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
Motorists 'filtering', particularly when there's a queue, can often lead to road traffic accidents, and there are several good examples of case law


The Highway Code gives guidance for drivers and riders on filtering, with Section 167 stating you shouldn't overtake where you might 'come into conflict with other road users'.

It gives examples of not overtaking when approaching or at a junction on either side of the road, where traffic is queuing at junctions, or when a road user is indicating right – even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled.

Section 211 advises drivers that it's often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists when they are executing certain manoeuvres, including filtering through traffic. It also states that when turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing.

Whilst the Highway Code undoubtedly helps, the cases below – including some High Court appeals – highlight the dangers.


Powell v Moody (1966)
The defendant was exiting a minor road onto a main road. There was a queue of traffic on the main road, and he was invited to leave the minor road by a driver on the main road in the queue of traffic.

As he did so the claimant, on a motorbike, was riding along the offside of the queue and collided with the defendant's vehicle.

The judge found the claimant to be 80% to blame, as any party jumping a queue of stationary vehicles is 'undertaking an operation fraught with great hazard'.




Clarke v Winchurch (1969)
Here, the defendant drove his car from the kerb, facing oncoming traffic when a bus stopped to allow him to cross.

The claimant was riding a moped, overtaking the stationary traffic and bus, and collided with the defendant's vehicle.

The judge considered the claimant wholly to blame for the accident.

Of great importance here was that the bus was stopped, but not at a bus stop, and this should have alerted the claimant travelling around it.


Leeson v Bevis & Tolchard Ltd (1972)
In this case, a van driver was coming out of a driveway and was flashed by a lorry driver who had stopped on the main road to let the van driver emerge. A motorcyclist overtook the lorry and collided with the van.

The judge held that the van driver and motorcyclist were equally to blame.

At appeal it was said that the motorcyclist should have observed the gap opposite the driveway, and should therefore have been aware.




Worsfold v Howe (1980)
A motorcyclist was proceeding in a second lane of traffic with the nearside lane stationary due to a queue of vehicles.

A driver pulled out from a side road and it was found that there is no principle of law that a driver was entitled to emerge blind from a minor road onto a major road by inching forward beyond his line of vision and that if he did so he was under no liability.

The judge found the parties equally to blame, the motorcyclist for again not considering the implications of a gap in the nearside lane of traffic.


Hillman v Tompkins (1995)
The defendant was driving a car in slow moving traffic approaching traffic signals. A motorcyclist was filtering past in same direction.

The defendant signalled to turn right into a junction. The judge found the car had not moved clear of the line of traffic and the motorcycle was 'speeding' at 30-40mph. Blame was apportioned 50/50.


Brooks v Burgess (1996)
There was a collision between the parties when the motorist crossed a junction in front of a stationary coach at 5 to 10 mph, in the path of a motorcycle travelling along the nearside of the coach at 20 mph.

The car driver was held primarily responsible for the accident because she was travelling along a minor road across a major road and should have been aware of the gap along the nearside of the coach and of the possibility that a motorcycle, bicycle or pedestrian might be travelling along the major road across the junction.

It was held on appeal that both parties were equally to blame for the accident. Both parties were performing dangerous manoeuvres and each should have been aware of the obvious risk involved.


Davis v Schrogin (2006)
This case also went to appeal. The defendant was stuck in a traffic jam on a straight road, with the claimant riding his motorcycle on the same road in the same direction.

As there was no traffic coming from the other direction, the motorcyclist was overtaking the stationary traffic. The defendant had decided to perform a U-turn to get out of the queue and moved to the left of the queue before beginning the U-turn.

The judge found that the defendant had been negligent in not looking properly before beginning his turn. He also did not believe that the motorcyclist had time to see the defendant's manoeuvre, and that the claimant couldn't have done anything to avoid the accident.

On appeal, it was decided that once the judge had found as a primary fact that the motorcyclist was so close to the point of impact that he could not have avoided the collision, there was simply no basis for any finding of contributory negligence. The judge's decision would be upheld.


No hard and fast rule
What all of these cases show is that each is decided on its merits. There are no hard and fast rules, and courts will look at all of the evidence.

Access Legal, from Shoosmiths often hears people talking about judges being 'anti-biker', but what these cases show is that judges look at the facts.

Any party jumping a queue of stationary vehicles is 'undertaking an operation fraught with great hazard'.

Judges accept that bikes filter. "Undesirable as it may be, motorcyclists do and can be expected to overtake in circumstances of this kind," one judge is quoted as saying.

Both parties' behaviour leading up to an accident and the full circumstances of it are considered. Speeding past a queue of traffic at a dangerous speed and ignoring a big gap in front of a bus are likely to lead to problems if a car emerges from a side road into that gap. When filtering, do so with care and anticipate the actions of other road users.
http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/accidents-involving-filtering-what-the-law-says-lu-2811.htm
 

XmisterIS

Purveyor of fine nonsense
Origamist's post there highlights what I consider to be one of the most important factors in filtering (in any position in the road), which is anticipation! Either on a bicycle or on a motorbike, we have a significant vision advantage; i.e. we can see over the tops of cars. On my motorbike particularly, my head is about 2 feet above the roofs of cars.

The vision advantage allows us to see what I feel is the most dangerous situation of all - filtering on a major road past a junction with a minor road. My golden rule here is that if ANYONE in that region looks like they're waiting to make any kind of manoeuvre, then anticipate, hang back and only proceed when it's safe to do so - you may have seen them, but they probably haven't seen you (because they're in a car, they're not probably not looking for you, and they have a worse line of sight than you).
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Im really saddened that you all think I cycle like that all the time but why should I be surprised with some boarders on here?

Shame most of you are too stupid to actually not be able to work this out.

I also say again you don't actually know those lights but you take to criticise constantly with magnatom actually saying I was going to jump them.Seems like he doesn't believe my story but why should I expect anything different from him?

Im not going to post on here anymore of which you may all be relieved about.

Hackers if you are still lurking here, she looked rather fit and riding fixed? Well done for keeping up with her. Maybe she posted a corresponding thread on the FGSS forum that she had to ride hell for leather down the Mile End road, heavy traffic, taking risks she wouldn't normally, jumping red lights to try and lose this guy who was in hot pursuit of her, filming ................... Luckily she says she got away...... Only kidding.

Hope you come back.
 
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