Filtering/undertaking

[Domestique]

What is the legal position when filtering or undertaking on the left hand side of slow moving or stationary traffic?
Yesterday I had a driver of parked car, on my left hand side, decide to pull out, and I was at fault and a silly cow as another car had stopped in the very slow moving traffic to let him do so.
I dont want to start the painted cycle lane debate, but, imo at least it would clearly show you had a right to be on the road.
Im peed off

 

[BentMikey]

What happened exactly? Did they indicate before pulling out, were you hit, and are you ok?

Drivers will always try to blame you in this sort of collision. In reality, they need to check their surroundings before pulling off. Filtering is quite legal. There is quite a lot of onus on us, though, to filter carefully and well.

I would also say that overtaking, i.e. filtering on the right, is usually the better option than undertaking. Undertaking leads to the undertakers, and whilst I do undertake, it's usually with extreme care. To be fair though, any form of filtering needs to be done with lots of care.

 

[BentMikey]

See rule 151:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309

and rule 88:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069854

If you google motorcycles and filtering, there's quite a lot of subject matter.

 

[Domestique]

I had seen the indicator on the car going and he quite clearly saw me. As I see this, I am on the carrigeway and he is pulling onto it, I have the right of way regardless of other traffic.
Btw it was a miss, and not even a near miss as I had anticpated what was going to happen. He still pulled alongside further up the road and had his say though
Thanks BM, I like rule 151. I may have to quote that as my reply when this happens again.

 

[Joe24]

Wouldnt he have seen you in his mirror before he pulled off, which should of been checked before she pulled out?
But when i've been in the car with mum, we were half way down the side of a car which had pulled over to let someone out, and had been passed by alot of people in the que of cars from the lights just tried to pull and barge her way into the que again.

 

[BentMikey]

You don't have right of way, you might have had priority, though I agree, he should have waited.

According to his "small willy" mindset, you're an unimportant pleb on a bike, so you should always give way to Very Important Drivers like him. Hence the abuse. He's not worth another thought, unlike your own riding/driving. I think I would have done much the same as you did, avoiding the initial incident and then questioning my own riding to see if I could improve anything. It sounds like you did everything right to me.

 

[MessenJah]

Sometimes undertaking is ok, depending on the situation, but I usually avoid it unless it is the only option and it's definitely safe. Once, when I was less experienced, I was in a hurry, it was freezing cold and I just wanted to get where I was going, and I thought 'just go'. I unthinkingly undertook a load of cars and this happened:

The woman who hit me asked if I was ok, I just said "I'm fine" in a disgruntled voice and rode off, but to this day I still feel guilty 'cause it was my fault and I probably made her feel pretty bad for hitting me.

 

[BentMikey]

*cough* your fault? Isn't it her responsibility to check it's clear before turning? I would say it was your failure to ride defensively, but both legal and moral blame would be on the red car driver.

 

[John Ponting]

Thanks BM, I like rule 151. I may have to quote that as my reply when this happens again.

Rule 151(5) allows for the situation to arise as well as Rule 151(6) being a usefull response.

I (personally) think that Rule 88 is the one to be remembered at all times . I have a major vested interest in MY safety as well as that of others.


btw I'm more commuter motorcyclist than cyclist. I have never cycled near central London and haven't commuted regularly for about 8 years. I am sure that conditions and densities have increased dramatically. Bike show in October by motorbike will give me an update.

 

[Cab]

*cough* your fault? Isn't it her responsibility to check it's clear before turning? I would say it was your failure to ride defensively, but both legal and moral blame would be on the red car driver.

And that really sums the whole thing up nicely. Look out for your own safety, thats the right thing to do, but at the same time that doesn't mean that when the other person breaks the rules and endangers you it becomes your fault. Her mistake, her fault, but if you can avoid it then do so.

 

[John Ponting]

Cab, I think that's what I was trying to suggest but you put it much better.

 

[Jaded]

Regardless of the HC and priority and so on, there's one adage that is far more important than what a driver should do.

That is, always think of what the drivers expect to happen.

Drivers don't normally expect someone to come up on the inside
Drivers don't normally expect a stationary line of cars to suddenly change into a moving one (like the turning right example above)

You can argue until blue in the face about what these drivers should do, about being in the right, about doing the right thing, but if you don't think about what drivers expect to happen then you stand a greater chance of being in the right, but injured.

 

[MessenJah]

*cough* your fault? Isn't it her responsibility to check it's clear before turning? I would say it was your failure to ride defensively, but both legal and moral blame would be on the red car driver.

But she did check, and it was clear, that is until I suddenly emerged from beside the blue vehicle.

She did spot me and her brakes were on when the car hit me, and thus it was barely a knock; I don't even think I fell off the bike.

But you can't expect all motorists to have superhuman powers of vision, they don't have x-ray eyes, and you certainly can't blame them for your own stupidity.

 

[BentMikey]

She can't have checked properly then, and should have. Filtering cyclists are extremely common in London, you can't say it's something that drivers don't and shouldn't expect.

OTOH I'd probably feel the brunt of my own failure to predict the obvious if I'd done the same as messenjah. Still doesn't change the fact that the driver screwed up and would be liable for any damages.

 

[Cab]

She can't have checked properly then, and should have. Filtering cyclists are extremely common in London, you can't say it's something that drivers don't and shouldn't expect.

OTOH I'd probably feel the brunt of my own failure to predict the obvious if I'd done the same as messenjah. Still doesn't change the fact that the driver screwed up and would be liable for any damages.

Although were this to end up in court then the extent of damages may well be rather less than would be the case had the cyclist not filtered; the motorist may argue that the cyclist wasn't visible due to the presence of other traffic, and it is the responsibility of every road user to think for themselves to minimise risk. Still the motorists fault, but like most accidents there are contributory factors outside of each individuals influence.