Gearing Conundrum

[Lozi]

My 2010 Kona Cindercone mountain bike is approaching 10000 miles and to celebrate I have decided to bring it more up to date by treating it to a more modern groupset etc for the next 10000 and beyond!

It currently has the deore/slx setup it came with which is 9 speed 3x 44/32/22 and 11-32 cassette and I have decided to go 11 speed and try to stretch to di2 (waste of money for this bike to most but I intend to keep and ride this bike indefinitely!)

The XT M8000/8050 is what I am planning on getting BUT the biggest chain ring setup is a 38/28 and I really can't decide if that's going to be enough?

I think with modern cassettes I will have no issues matching the easier gears on my current setup but that 38t has me majorly conflicted! How bad is it likely to be compared to the 44? The 2 bikes I have are the only bikes I have owned as an adult and one has a 44t the other a 46t so i have never lived with anything other than that.

I do a mixture of on and off-road on it locally and I wouldn't say I'm exactly spinning out the 44-11 all the time but I cannot get my head around if 38-11 is going to be really annoying or not

There is a triple chainset available for the era of shimano I am looking at which has a 40t so a little better but the di2 derailleur is XTR so expensive and the rings etc are far less common and way more expensive compared to the 2x stuff.

Another alternative I have seen is GRX but there's a big part of me that thinks a MTB should have a MTB groupset and I'm not sure if GRX would work or not.

I don't want 1x I like having gears and I am really not a fan of this 1x trend

Thanks

 

[ColinJ]

I cannot get my head around if 38-11 is going to be really annoying or not

Assuming 26" wheels with chunky tyres, you would be doing around 39 kph (24 mph) at a cadence of 90 rpm.

Work out the maximum cadence you like to pedal at, and the maximum speed that you want to pedal to. If you want to do more than (say) 40 kph at a cadence of (say) less than 80 rpm, then 38/11 would be too low. If you are happy riding at (say) 35 kph and up to (say) 100 rpm then it would be fine for you.

 

[wafter]

Is the current groupset worn out? If not I'd strongly suggest you keep it.. I have Deore on my utility hack (IIRC 48/36/26 x 11-34) and R7000 105 on my gravel bike (50/34 x 11-34), and tbh from a gearing perspective I much prefer the triple.

Yes, the 105's STIs and hydraulic brakes are nice, although the shifting's not as much of a deal-breaker as I thought it might be on the type of riding I typically do, while I guess for your application both are are a moot point (unless you already have discs, in which case hydro is nice if you don't already have it).

9sp is the last, really compatable standard, parts are cheap and I'd urge you not to upgrade just because "newer=better" - why not treat it to a full strip down, clean and chain wax? I've come to the realisation that with current wear rates of waxed gear I might never have to buy another chain in my lifetime; let alone another groupset

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I’m running 9 speed triple, very happy with it, and wide a gear range as anything modern, but consumables 1/3 price of more modern stuff.

 

[Jenkins]

Does the current cassette have a 13 tooh cog and how often do you use it? 38/11 is only very slightly higher than 44/13.

 

[I like Skol]

Does the current cassette have a 13 tooh cog and how often do you use it? 38/11 is only very slightly higher than 44/13.

11-32 cassette.... RTT!

IMO a 38 chainring will probably leave you wanting.

I have a 1996 MTB and updated it from 8spd to 9spd after 10spd was already available.
I also went from 28/38/48 chain set to a 24/32/44. Just about get away with this as I do tend to belt along. Definitely wouldn't consider smaller than a 44.

At the opposite end of the range because I swapped from an 11/28 cassette to an 11/34, I have removed the smallest chainring because I just wasn't using it so now run a 2x9 set up with the easiest gear of 32:34 where I used to have 28:28 with the old 3x9 gears so a slight improvement for steep climbs.

Shimano's later MTB offerings do seem to be very restrictive and despite fairly regular window shopping on my part I just feel cold and move on rather than buying stuff.

 

[Jenkins]

11-32 cassette.... RTT!

IMO a 38 chainring will probably leave you wanting.

I have a 1996 MTB and updated it from 8spd to 9spd after 10spd was already available.
I also went from 28/38/48 chain set to a 24/32/44. Just about get away with this as I do tend to belt along. Definitely wouldn't consider smaller than a 44.

At the opposite end of the range because I swapped from an 11/28 cassette to an 11/34, I have removed the smallest chainring because I just wasn't using it so now run a 2x9 set up with the easiest gear of 32:34 where I used to have 28:28 with the old 3x9 gears so a slight improvement for steep climbs.

Shimano's later MTB offerings do seem to be very restrictive and despite fairly regular window shopping on my part I just feel cold and move on rather than buying stuff.

What I was getting at is based on the 11-32 cassette having 2 lower cogs of 11 & 13 teeth. The current 8th gear of 44/13 would be roughly the same as the proposed lowest gear of 38/11 according to the gear calculator below. If the OP "wouldn't say I'm exactly spinning out the 44-11 all the time" how does (s)he get on in a 44/13 combination to give an idea of whether the proposed new lower gear would be too 'spinny'

 

[Lozi]

Assuming 26" wheels with chunky tyres, you would be doing around 39 kph (24 mph) at a cadence of 90 rpm.

Work out the maximum cadence you like to pedal at, and the maximum speed that you want to pedal to. If you want to do more than (say) 40 kph at a cadence of (say) less than 80 rpm, then 38/11 would be too low. If you are happy riding at (say) 35 kph and up to (say) 100 rpm then it would be fine for you.

Yes 26x2.3 I think, thanks for that! your info suggests to me it is going to be borderline my top speed on my current local winter rides is usually around 25mph as I'm not pushing too much currently but obviously not 90rpm, I don't have a cadence sensor on this bike but I think 90-100rpm is on the high side for me its been a while since I've looked at cadence.

Is the current groupset worn out? If not I'd strongly suggest you keep it.. I have Deore on my utility hack (IIRC 48/36/26 x 11-34) and R7000 105 on my gravel bike (50/34 x 11-34), and tbh from a gearing perspective I much prefer the triple.

Yes, the 105's STIs and hydraulic brakes are nice, although the shifting's not as much of a deal-breaker as I thought it might be on the type of riding I typically do, while I guess for your application both are are a moot point (unless you already have discs, in which case hydro is nice if you don't already have it).

9sp is the last, really compatable standard, parts are cheap and I'd urge you not to upgrade just because "newer=better" - why not treat it to a full strip down, clean and chain wax? I've come to the realisation that with current wear rates of waxed gear I might never have to buy another chain in my lifetime; let alone another groupset

The first 6500 miles I did on this bike I never once washed it or had it serviced so you could say its pretty worn out, i did have the bike overhauled at that point as the chain was slipping like crazy for some time lol it still has the original abused derailleurs etc but they do still work fine to be fair. I mostly just want to try Di2 and something new I ride this bike a minimum of 10 miles every single day and its served me well I think it deserves it!

I also couldn't get replacement chain rings for the crankset that's on it when it had its overdue overhaul but I did manage to find a never used replacement crankset and BB on eBay USA but i got fairly lucky finding that. My local shop has tonnes of 11 speed stuff but always has to order 9 speed in.

I’m running 9 speed triple, very happy with it, and wide a gear range as anything modern, but consumables 1/3 price of more modern stuff.

Its done me well over the years but i am having some bother finding some bits for it I think its time to go 11 speed, I will keep the 9 speed group and fit it to an older Kona MTB as a bit of a project one day so it will live on, that's what i have in mind anyway!

11-32 cassette.... RTT!

IMO a 38 chainring will probably leave you wanting.

I have a 1996 MTB and updated it from 8spd to 9spd after 10spd was already available.
I also went from 28/38/48 chain set to a 24/32/44. Just about get away with this as I do tend to belt along. Definitely wouldn't consider smaller than a 44.

At the opposite end of the range because I swapped from an 11/28 cassette to an 11/34, I have removed the smallest chainring because I just wasn't using it so now run a 2x9 set up with the easiest gear of 32:34 where I used to have 28:28 with the old 3x9 gears so a slight improvement for steep climbs.

Shimano's later MTB offerings do seem to be very restrictive and despite fairly regular window shopping on my part I just feel cold and move on rather than buying stuff.

I do use the 22t chainring on the off-road sections of my route but I never used to until recently I guess as its there I may as well use it! I hate the way that MTB has gone most new bikes come with a tiny 1x and a dinner plate sized cassette I just don't understand how that is useful! Its getting worse though so I think if I want to modernise my bike XT 8000 is as good as its going to get, 38 being the biggest supported size is annoying me!

What I was getting at is based on the 11-32 cassette having 2 lower cogs of 11 & 13 teeth. The current 8th gear of 44/13 would be roughly the same as the proposed lowest gear of 38/11 according to the gear calculator below. If the OP "wouldn't say I'm exactly spinning out the 44-11 all the time" how does (s)he get on in a 44/13 combination to give an idea of whether the proposed new lower gear would be too 'spinny'
View attachment 675393

Interesting! I'm actually not sure what teeth the other in between gears have without counting them I do know the LBS fitted an Alvio 11-32 a few weeks ago as its on the receipt.

In my head I thought it would be more extreme than that I don't understand why a 6 tooth difference on the front kind of converts to a 2 tooth difference at the back if that makes sense?

If i can effectively test it in this way that's pretty awesome.