Getting fed up of Motorcyclists pulling this stunt

[Hip Priest]

I'd have let the motorcyclist go, personally. As an aside, I was struck by how friendly he was. If everyone had his attitude, imagine how pleasant the roads would be.

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

I like these videos,they test me out and make me ask what would I have done.I do like the sticking behind the van,I do that a lot with buses,depending on the situation.

 

[Mugshot]

+1 to the comments above from gaz and 399bhp.

In addition to which, I'm not clear why you asked the motorcyclist to let you go first.

The guy on the motorcycle seemed pleasant and polite.

Even a gently ridden motorcycle will outpull Tom Boonen away from a junction. You had (as far as I can see) no reason either to want to get away ahead of the motorcycle or to ask him to let you.

It was pretty clear (to this untutored eye) that the motorcycle had 'tucked right' to be out of the way of the traffic filtered left while he was waiting. The question was a little intrusive and... unnecessary.

I saw no numpty motorcyclist in that clip. Is that junction in Rhyl by any chance? I seem to recognise it.

+1, that about sums it up. I could see no reason to ask if you could go before the motorbike, odd.

 

[captain nemo1701]

Before I got a helmet cam, I was cut up by a motorbike at this same junction. I was going through the lights in a primary position, little traffic about for once, I heard a motorbike coming from behind and assumed, from the sound and direction, that he was turning left. But as I looked over my right shoulder to check for cars, he shot past on my left as we went over the junction. There are often parked cars on the left, so in swerving to miss them, he gave me a bit of a shock suddenly appearing so close that I wobbled and almost came off. So when I got to the office, I ordered a helmet cam.

I have often worked in London where I see the ASL frequently full of motorbikes often with cyclists stuck behind in the traffic. Kind of defeats the whole concept, doesn't it?. Where one enters, others are encouraged. I see lots of cyclists on pavements, but it doesn't mean that I should simply because others choose to break the law.

I asked to go first as, if you study the video, I arrived ahead of him at the ASL. I heard the motorbike, but again, as he was slightly behind on my left, in the left turn lane, one assumes that he would actually going to turn left. So I think it's just poor riding to use a left turn lane to cut into a cycling facility automatically assuming nobody will be there. You wouldn't cycle straight out of a junction assuming no traffic was coming, would you?. I try not to cut people up on my bike, so it's common courtesy that someone on a motorbike shouldn't do it either. It's just poor riding and bad positioning. I wouldn't have a problem with a cyclist since they are also permitted in the ASL and move at about the same speed. That said, I have been cut up by roadies attempting to break the speed of light.

Trouble with this junction is that it now has a left turn lane as originally it had only one lane with a rather feeble advisory cycle lane on the left. The original layout is still in Google Earth although not on streetview level . One would expect cars and motorbikes in the left lane to actually be turning left . The cycle lane was removed and this left turn lane introduced to discourage undertaking by cyclists and colliding with left-turning lorries etc.

Some motorbikes have a lot of power and acceleration, so why would the rider of a machine capable of doing 60-70mph need to get into a space intended for slower moving cyclists?. And if you're that worried about your safety on a motorbike, why not switch to a bicycle. Motorbikes on the left cutting through are intimidatory because of their size, noise and speed. Just one sudden shock increases the risk of having an accident.

I'll have to do a little digging to find that police website. It quoted the traffic road design regulations which mention motorists having to stop at the first white line on red while cyclists can enter using a cycle lane. Interesting that they don't say what to do if there is no cycle lane and they don't specifically prohibit entry by bicycle on red.

 

[Lee_M]

You seem to be getting het up over nothing. Ok he shouldn't be in the asl but bikers do it for the same reason as cyclists- to avoid getting killed.

Other than that he was nowhere near you and wasn't doing anything to affect you

I really don't get it

 

[Linford]

ASLs don't make cycling safer. They encourage a vehicle which has just passed you in the traffic to do the same thing all over again 200 yards up the road, It could be argued that they make motorcycling safer as once in front of the big red van which you squeezed past, it will not be able to pass them again as they will be gone - unlike what it will do to you once more when you are both another couple of hundred yards up the road - you also rode into the path of an oncoming vehicle to get past it to gain access to the ASL.
You seem jolly keen to let everyone else know who owns the road both by actions and words....

 

[400bhp]

I'll repeat, as perhaps you had skipped over my post.

Why did you go in front of the red van?

 

[captain nemo1701]

I went in front of the red van because I know these lights and they are slow to change, especially if the crossing ahead is in use. There's plenty of room to filter - you have to take into account the distortion produced by the camera lens that tends to make things look closer than they actually are. I would not have filtered had there been no room. Looking at some other cycling vids, I note the same thing.

Linford - ASL's don't make cycling safer but they make motorcycling safer?. Don't get that one. So what if the car/van you just got in front of passes you further down the road?. The ASL makes you more visible, especially if I were turning off or filtering into a cycle lane etc.
I don't profess to own the road but I do take exception to others who put me at risk. They also put themselves at risk by developing bad riding habits.

Lee_M : If I wasn't there and this guy tried to cut through this way in heavy moving traffic, he might 'blindside' another vehicle or have a collision. Cutting across into the centre lane from the left is risky.
Perhaps this will clarify what I mean:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jfMmw3XnxQ&feature=plcp


Motorbike cuts through at 0.36. Not a very sensible thing to do?. Are you suggesting that motorcyclists who want to ride fast and dangerous machines should resort to using the cycling facilities if they feel at risk?. If so, where does this leave cycling?.

Bottom line on all this is that motorcyclists should not use the left turn lane to gain access to a cycling facility they have no business (HC178) being in. The biker made the mistake of assuming the ASL would be empty. Sure, if he and I had just sat behind the red van, nothing would have happened. But as a cyclist, I have the option of using the ASL if I wish (sometimes, I don't). I have noted the Must-Get-In-Front attitude of some bikers who often not only break the rules governing the ASL but place themselves in groups almost in the middle of crossings. Go over white line number 2 and it's RLJ time. In London recently, while driving the company van, I was sat at the lights and saw a motorbike in my wing mirror being ridden down the pavement so he could get in front of me at the ASL!.

Funny thing I've noted about these forums & Youtube is that cyclists will have a dig at drivers who abuse the ASL, but mention motorbikes and people somehow get all defensive about it. It's abusing a facility set aside for others, so people should show more respect and restraint. I don't cycle on pavements, simply because they are empty.

 

[400bhp]

I went in front of the red van because I know these lights and they are slow to change, especially if the crossing ahead is in use. There's plenty of room to filter - you have to take into account the distortion produced by the camera lens that tends to make things look closer than they actually are. I would not have filtered had there been no room. Looking at some other cycling vids, I note the same thing.
.

You appear to be justifying moving to the front "because you can"?

 

[Paul99]

I've seen several hundred of these helmet cam videos since I started cycling about a year ago, and to be honest only about half a dozen actually made me wince. The rest I have struggled to see anything dangerous.

OP - You really need to leave the camera at home and just enjoy your cycling.

 

[campbellab]

You appear to be justifying moving to the front "because you can"?

I think its more justifying why it was safe to do so. I dont think the viewpoint that perhaps not going into the ASL would be a better and safer position has been communicated effectively

 

[Linford]

I went in front of the red van because I know these lights and they are slow to change, especially if the crossing ahead is in use. There's plenty of room to filter - you have to take into account the distortion produced by the camera lens that tends to make things look closer than they actually are. I would not have filtered had there been no room. Looking at some other cycling vids, I note the same thing.

You still deliberately rode into the opposite lane as the black car came towards you to get past the red van though. They had right of way at the end of the day. You went in their space, and they were forced into the gutter to leave a safe margin for you.

Linford - ASL's don't make cycling safer but they make motorcycling safer?. Don't get that one. So what if the car/van you just got in front of passes you further down the road?. The ASL makes you more visible, especially if I were turning off or filtering into a cycle lane etc.
I don't profess to own the road but I do take exception to others who put me at risk. They also put themselves at risk by developing bad riding habits.

And so what if the lights had changed and the red van moved off whilst you were on the wrong side of the road marginalising the car in the opposite lane, and a following vehicle had to brake sharply to let you back onto your side of the road. ? You could have just stayed in the traffic flow behind the van as you put yourself in danger from it passing you, not once, but twice - for the sake of what, 10 seconds ?

Motorbike cuts through at 0.36. Not a very sensible thing to do?. Are you suggesting that motorcyclists who want to ride fast and dangerous machines should resort to using the cycling facilities if they feel at risk?. If so, where does this leave cycling?.

Motorcyclists are an at risk group more so than cyclists in the stats. You call them 'fast and dangerous', I call them 'vulnerable road users' in the same way which a cyclist is a 'vulnerable road user'. You want to rob them of the only advantage they have of using 2 wheels in an urban environment - which is to filter. Their needs are different to yours in respect that they can always stay with the flow of the traffic and so benefit from being in front of any queue. You double your risk when using an ASL when a large vehicle like a van, bus or lorry has to continually keep overtaking you to maintain any continuity. Regular traffic soon gets frustrated on 30 and 40mph roads when you jump the queue on your bike at every set of lights and then hold them up at 15 or 20 mph.

Bottom line on all this is that motorcyclists should not use the left turn lane to gain access to a cycling facility they have no business (HC178) being in. The biker made the mistake of assuming the ASL would be empty. Sure, if he and I had just sat behind the red van, nothing would have happened. But as a cyclist, I have the option of using the ASL if I wish (sometimes, I don't). I have noted the Must-Get-In-Front attitude of some bikers who often not only break the rules governing the ASL but place themselves in groups almost in the middle of crossings. Go over white line number 2 and it's RLJ time. In London recently, while driving the company van, I was sat at the lights and saw a motorbike in my wing mirror being ridden down the pavement so he could get in front of me at the ASL!.

I would argue that the laws regarding ASL's need overhauling for a changing transport model. Motorcycles are becoming more relevant as commuting vehicles, but as vulnerable users need to have these needs met.

If you had any experience on PTW's, you would appreciate another side of the coin.

Bristol has long since recognised that motorcycles are part of the solution, and as such given them access to the bus lanes long before the other places like London woke up to the benefits of encouraging their use - which is to get people out of cars who have commutes which are not practical by bicycle, and thus help to reduce congestion.

I favour safety for all vulnerable users at the end of the day and that is why I really never did get the whole ASL thing for cycles. They just create confrontation and encourage risk taking to enforce a 'right' where less experienced cyclists might try and run up the inside of HGV's and buses turning left just to get in front.

 

[Lee_M]

Personally, after reading all this I just think you have a problem with people not following "your" view of what is right or not.

I reiterate, the biker didnt cut you up or put you in any danger, but you cant seem to accept that, and your description of bikes as "fast and dangerous" gives away your prejudices

 

[BentMikey]

I think you ought to chill and let it go. I think this is much ado about nothing, and there's lots of good advice here to focus on more serious things.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

To the OP I admit to being a a Demon of Death, sorry a Motorcyclist, if anything I think what the motorcyclist did was more sensible than you, you put yourself in danger by going over the white line & forcing the black car over, had I been driving that car I think I would have uttered a few choice words. Then once in front of the van you put yourself in more danger by staying to the right & blocking the van from setting off, again had a been the van driver I suspect I would have uttered a few more choice words.

The motorcyclist on the other hand, came up the clear left hand lane, something you should have done, positioned himself in the middle of the 2 lanes so that had you not been there & the van wanted to make a Sweeney getaway the motorcyclist would have not been in danger.

Do you have a license to drive any vehicle, have you had any formal training? I really do think you need to examine your own actions before deriding others.

Alan...