Giving someone a bad reference

[ttcycle]

Just to be clear - you've qualified that one for me- a bad refs has to be truthful and evidence based.

 

[srw]

R(In the private sector no-one ever puts down their current employer as a referee.)

Not the case. We specifically ask for one for the current employer. Since all I'm using it for is to check that they do actually work where they claim to, I'd be remiss not to.

 

[CopperBrompton]

I have a friend in HR for a large company. The accepted code for a bad reference is:

"I can confirm that NAME was employed here from DATE to DATE."

The fact that you choose to say only this will be universally understood in HR circles.

 

[Noodley]

I have given two 'bad' references.

Both very honest and truthful, backed with evidence. I would not want any other employer to employ either of them. I'm amazed either is still allowed to be on the professional register. B)

 

[ufkacbln]

I suppose so- you sometimes get employers who give a fantastically glowing reference to get rid of a member of staff they didn't like.

You could say that or simply I do not wish to provide a reference. You don't need to give a reason why- probably best not to.

Come across a lot of people who have the experience in a job but it doesn't nec mean they are good at it but by the nature of our employment system these people move into roles further up when they weren't any good in the first place.

There was a case a few years ago where a Nurse was penalised by her professional body over a reference..........it was deemed a professional opinion.

I have given a reference on an appaling woman who worked with us for a few weeks. It simply read:

******* worked with us between 1/8/07 and 26/9/07

Sorted - you can get an awful lot out of that!

Edited - just seen Ben's post to the same end.

 

[ttcycle]

Cunobelin - my reply was to Kirstie's statement of saying 'I do not wish to give an opinion' and how references don't reflect on the calibre of staff.

 

[rich p]

I still don't understand why you'd give a bad reference to someone who you want to leave. Have they already got the job, in which case the reference is irrelevant or am I missing the point? Quite probably!

 

[Crankarm]

I still don't understand why you'd give a bad reference to someone who you want to leave. Have they already got the job, in which case the reference is irrelevant or am I missing the point? Quite probably!

With references I think it is probably a power thing. With one ascerbically worded paragraph you could either destroy some one's new opportunity and detrimentally effect the path of their life or ensure their smooth transition to a new organisation thus enabling them to carry on where they left off and for them to be out of your life.

Getting your own back is tempting. Payback for the misery they caused you and everyone else.

If only .......... but convention and rules dictate you shouldn't or can't write what you really would prefer to for the risk of litigation. So the basic reference makes the reference completely sterile.

In this case the reference would seem just a formaility as Kirstie gives the impression this guy has got his new job subject to a satisfactory reference from her. I guess she comes from the position of honesty and integrity. Where there may be a significant problem she probably feels it only right and her duty to highlight this to the next employer so as to give them the full picture and not mislead them. What a moral dilemma!

 

[Danny]

Oddly I have just been asked to provide a reference in similar circumstances to you Kirstie, though in this case the person concerned has not yet applied for a job. My tactic is going to be to try and have an honest conversation with the person concern about what jobs it would be sensible for them to apply for, and by implication what job I would feel comfortable about giving them a reference for.

I agree with ASC1951. There is no reason why you shouldn't give an honest reference. The (difficult) trick is to try and be objective and balanced about the person and not let any personal feelings of your own get in the way.

For example I see nothing wrong with saying "x is capable of producing good work provided they are given clear instructions and are well supervised".

I'd suggest you have a word with your HR department, who ought to be able to give you some clear guidance on what to do in the circumstances.

 

[ufkacbln]

I still don't understand why you'd give a bad reference to someone who you want to leave. Have they already got the job, in which case the reference is irrelevant or am I missing the point? Quite probably!

There is a real possibility that someone can be stunning at an interview and with a CV that ticks every single box...... but it is a tissue of lies and bluster.

Many jobs are offered on the acceptance of references for this reason.

Additionally as I posted about the Nursing - This is MY professional opinion on the line here and if I give a muppet a glowing reference that proves untrue it will reflect upon me and my Trust as well.

 

[rich p]

There is a real possibility that someone can be stunning at an interview and with a CV that ticks every single box...... but it is a tissue of lies and bluster.

Many jobs are offered on the acceptance of references for this reason.

Additionally as I posted about the Nursing - This is MY professional opinion on the line here and if I give a muppet a glowing reference that proves untrue it will reflect upon me and my Trust as well.

It doesn't have to be glowing just non-committal, after all you want the muppet to leave.