Glasgow Congestion Charge

[GrahamG]

Funny, I'm going to a seminar this evening on CC in the west of england including one guy who will present on the challenge of making any such proposals publicly acceptable. I think that until we no longer have tabloid newspapers, we're fooked! The amount of mis-information and all round BS in the media is ridiculous.
The campaign should be aimed at people who will really benefit from it - White van man, taxi drivers, business drivers (not commuters!), haulage firms etc. who all have rather loud opinionated voices so would be ideal to win over. The other benefits are to people with no voice - the poor (who benefit from improved public transport etc. meaning they aren't forced into blowing half the household income on cars), bus users (like anyone gives a flying f**k about them - most of them don't even own a car!), people living in the inner city communities choked by through traffic (they're far too poor and ethnic to give a shoot about).

I'll be interested to see what the view is.

 

[jmaccyd]

Funny, I'm going to a seminar this evening on CC in the west of england including one guy who will present on the challenge of making any such proposals publicly acceptable. I think that until we no longer have tabloid newspapers, we're fooked! The amount of mis-information and all round BS in the media is ridiculous.
The campaign should be aimed at people who will really benefit from it - White van man, taxi drivers, business drivers (not commuters!), haulage firms etc. who all have rather loud opinionated voices so would be ideal to win over. The other benefits are to people with no voice - the poor (who benefit from improved public transport etc. meaning they aren't forced into blowing half the household income on cars), bus users (like anyone gives a flying f**k about them - most of them don't even own a car!), people living in the inner city communities choked by through traffic (they're far too poor and ethnic to give a shoot about).

I'll be interested to see what the view is.

I kind of agree with this point. A REALLY effective scheme would massivly cut traffic in major conurbations and would be backed by accessable public transport. Hence a better community for all to live and work in. My major beef with the London scheme, is that it is neither fish nor foul (is that right?) Its not radical enough to really impact on traffic levels, and doesn't provide the sort of public transport options that people really need.

 

[domd1979]

What public transport options aren't provided in the London CC zone then?

My major beef with the London scheme, is that it is neither fish nor foul (is that right?) Its not radical enough to really impact on traffic levels, and doesn't provide the sort of public transport options that people really need.

 

[BentMikey]

I think the CC is awesome in London, I'd love to see it made much harsher. Jmaccyd, I think fowl is the word you were looking for.

 

[jmaccyd]

What public transport options aren't provided in the London CC zone then?

Ideally - trams!

 

[HJ]

They piloted congestion charges in Edinburgh didn't they? Or was it scrapped before it ever came to pass? I can't recall now.

I reckon it's time the public were told what's good for them rather than ask them if they'd like it.

I drive a fair bit too fwiw. Was pretty pi$$ed off with the removal of tolls on the FRB and believe me, living where I live and working where I work I'm in the group that's supposed to have benefitted most. Backwards thinking govt.

They didn't piloted congestion charges in Edinburgh, it was voted down after a lot of misinformation was put out about. There was a total failure of political will from those who had proposed the thing in the first place. It was undoubtedly a missed opportunity, and there are plenty that regret it now.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

They didn't piloted congestion charges in Edinburgh, it was voted down after a lot of misinformation was put out about. There was a total failure of political will from those who had proposed the thing in the first place. It was undoubtedly a missed opportunity, and there are plenty that regret it now.

If anything, things have gotten worse now on that score.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Ideally - trams!

What is ideal about trams? They seem to be trains with all the advantages removed. Trains, by being completely separated from other traffic, can maintain high speeds - and be long enough to carry a lot of people at once. A tram is like a bus that can't go around obstacles. Not to mention:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12099

Ben

 

[simoncc]

Virtually all road pricing schemes are predicated on re-investing any revenue in transport improvements. Your argument that it is a "racket to raise cash" holds no water.

We all know what all sorts of government schemes are 'predicated' on, and we all know how governments are very good at taking such 'predicated' cash and then failing to deliver what that cash was 'predicated' for.

There is only one guarantee with a congestion charge - you'll be poorer.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Indeed, and even when the money is spent as promised, often it is not used as extra funding, as you might imagine they meant, but is used to replace existing funding which is then wasted- I mean, spent on something else entirely.

Ben

 

[domd1979]

We all know what all sorts of government schemes are 'predicated' on, and we all know how governments are very good at taking such 'predicated' cash and then failing to deliver what that cash was 'predicated' for.

There is only one guarantee with a congestion charge - you'll be poorer.

It hasn't happened in London has it?

Any politician that ran off with the proceeds of road pricing would be mad.

 

[cannondale boy]

As always the government always fail to deliver on public transport.

They can say we'll improve on introducing more cycle lanes (this is what Boris Johnson said), but the sad truth is i'll see it when i believe it!

 

[simoncc]

It hasn't happened in London has it?

Any politician that ran off with the proceeds of road pricing would be mad.

Nobody runs off with the proceeds of new taxes. The money works its way into the paypackets of existing and newly hired public employees without any proportionate increase in service to the public. The education system and the NHS are huge examples of this compared to the London congestion charge, which is itself a matter of much debate as to whether it has delivered what it should have done.

Boris is to 'review' the London charge, so hopefuly this will mean that other schemes such as those touted for Manchester and Glasgow die a death. I'm no car lover and commute by bike, but I know an oppotunistic new tax grab when I see one, and the proposed Manchester congestion charge is just that.

 

[HJ]

We all know what all sorts of government schemes are 'predicated' on, and we all know how governments are very good at taking such 'predicated' cash and then failing to deliver what that cash was 'predicated' for.

There is only one guarantee with a congestion charge - you'll be poorer.

Only if you are stupid enough to drive when the charge is in operation, I have yet to see a congestion charge for bikes...

 

[CopperBrompton]

Only if you are stupid enough to drive when the charge is in operation

Nobody in their right mind chooses to drive in central London - we do so when it's the only practical approach.

The vast majority of my journeys to & in London are done using a mix of either train and tube or train and bicycle, but there are times when I've got so much kit to carry that a car is required, or when I'll be returning home after the last train.

The congestion tax is a pure revenue-raiser. Parking in central London is so expensive anyway that the additional cost of the congestion tax isn't going to play any role in transport choice, it simply raises cash.

A friend worked on road planning in London at the time the congestion tax was introduced. Road maintenance in London had for years been carefully managed to ensure that not too many roads were affected at any one time. What Ken did was to have three years' worth of roadworks in the six months leading up to the introduction of the congestion tax, most of it finishing at roughly the same time. The measurement of the 'before' congestion took place during this unprecedented number of roadworks, and the measurement of the 'after' congestion took place after roadwork levels were back to normal. Obviously this was just coincidental ...

I have yet to see a congestion charge for bikes...

Give it time ... We'll end up with a pavement congestion tax eventually ...

Ben