Going carless

[Easytigers]

Does it have the algae growing round the windows thing?

That happened to mine as well!

 

[KneesUp]

Interesting when comparing car and public transport that one of the positives for the car is its door to door properties. But how often do you drive somewhere that you can't park close to where you're going and end up walking 15 minutes after you've parked? This was why I started riding.
No staff parking and very limited on street parking meant circling the area for an undefined length of time, then a long walk to/from the workplace, through some places that weren't all that nice to walk through at night at the end of a shift!

I have a parking permit so I can always find somewhere to park within 2 or 3 minutes walk of work.I guess it varies a lot. I've only had two jobs where I've commuted by car (apart from this one) and there have been staff car parks at both, albeit one was barely big enough.

 

[Alun]

It will rarely be the most comfortable option either - in my car I can set the temperature (to the nearest half a degree if the dash is to be believed) and I get to choose the music whilst getting a guaranteed window seat that has never had a strangers boots rested on it, sitting with people I like.

I would hope so if you are driving!

 

[Ganymede]

Does it have the algae growing round the windows thing?

A bit... actually lichen...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Public transport will rarely be ... It will rarely be the most comfortable option either - in my car I can set the temperature (to the nearest half a degree if the dash is to be believed) and I get to choose the music whilst getting a guaranteed window seat that has never had a strangers boots rested on it, sitting with people I like.
.
.
In short, if you own a car there is little to persuade you to use public transport, and yet in other countries people do use it - because there it is cheap.
.
.
Public transport needs to be cheaper so people use it in greater numbers. This will benefit all of us. When I lived in Europe everyone used the tram - sure it was a bit less convenient than the car, but the trams stopped all over, and becuase so many people used them they ran realy frequently so you never had to wait long, and the cost per day if you bought a quarterly pass was a matter of pence - so even if people had cars they didn't use them to go on local journeys.

I don't buy it and think you've got the equation the wrong way around. And I also think the bit in bold is why we love our private cars so much; hell is other people.

Anyway private car use, especially sole-occupancy needs to be made much more expensive and its convenience removed by ceasing the practise of designing our town centres, and out-of-town shopping centres, around the needs of the pampered private car user.

Then public transport will be relatively cheaper AND more convenient.

 

[Nigeyy]

I think there's an amazing amount of personal choice in life if you think about it. However, whilst theoretically true, practically you usually have far less choices.

Sure you could give up work (as I could!). But practically the prospect of not providing for your kids or sponging off someone else or becoming homeless just isn't really a practical choice for me.

I do think going carless must be much easier if you don't have kids who depend on you, don't have family medical issues and don't have to work.

I'm looking forward to one day possibly having an opportunity to try it though!

Yeah, when I was about 15... it's vocational.

I'm not disputing that people choose, and as I said, I could choose to give it up and do something else, but I still think that work is one of the least easy things to change if you have responsibilities (which I don't).

 

[vickster]

I don't really need a car but I like having one and that's my choice. I realise it costs me oodles to sit on the drive but again that's my choice...can't take it with you and all that

I also have three bikes, at least one of which I don't really need, but again...and given I am constantly injured from cycling it seems, (and I don't much like cycling when it's cold and wet) probably best not to give up the car just yet!

 

[KneesUp]

I don't buy it and think you've got the equation the wrong way around. And I also think the bit in bold is why we love our private cars so much; hell is other people.

Anyway private car use, especially sole-occupancy needs to be made much more expensive and its convenience removed by ceasing the practise of designing our town centres, and out-of-town shopping centres, around the needs of the pampered private car user.

Then public transport will be relatively cheaper AND more convenient.

Realistically no government is going to make travelling by car significantly more expensive in a short period. I think making the price difference larger by making public transport cheaper is a more realistic aim.

 

[vickster]

Can't see that happening either, in London it pretty much goes up by 5% or something annually. Ageing population, more and more people who actually use public transport don't pay for it, at least in London, so it'll probably get more expensive for the people who pay

Bit like the NHS I guess!

 

[SWSteve]

You rounded wrong, it would be 827.

Saying that, you'd be surprised at how often I see rounding errors in the answers on the mark schemes of Chemistry A-Level papers.

I didn't do any rounding

 

[KneesUp]

Can't see that happening either, in London it pretty much goes up by 5% or something annually. Ageing population, more and more people who actually use public transport don't pay for it, at least in London, so it'll probably get more expensive for the people who pay

Bit like the NHS I guess!

The government doesn't set the prices though becuase for reasons best known to the Tories it's all been privatised, so now instead of a subsidised public good that was cheap we now have a subsidised public good that's privately owned and - in a way I've never understood - gets a subsidy and makes a profit.

 

[summerdays]

Anyway private car use, especially sole-occupancy needs to be made much more expensive and its convenience removed.

I cycle beside a dual carriageway where one lane is a 2+ lane in the morning. What I see every morning is that it is being totally abused and ignored by a significant number as nothing is done to penalise those who are flouting the rules. It seems pointless having the lane if it won't be policed as it then becomes a source of annoyance between rule-breakers, those with 2 people in the car using it legally, and those who follow the rules and have to watch the others making slightly better progress. I get annoyed at it and I'm not even on the road!!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I think there's an amazing amount of personal choice in life if you think about it. However, whilst theoretically true, practically you usually have far less choices.

Sure you could give up work (as I could!). But practically the prospect of not providing for your kids or sponging off someone else or becoming homeless just isn't really a practical choice for me.

I do think going carless must be much easier if you don't have kids who depend on you, don't have family medical issues and don't have to work.

I'm looking forward to one day possibly having an opportunity to try it though!

Is the only choice between doing the job you currently do in the place(s) you do it vs not providing/sponging.

A startlingly binary life we lead!

btw those kids.... your choice too

 

[.stu]

If you'd read my previous posts you'd realise that my car doesn't meaningfully depreciate because I bought it as a fully serviced, fully functional, high mileage 9 year old car - so for £1200 I get a big boot, 40mpg, climate control, comfy seats and a full length sunroof.

As a worse case I can weigh it in for scrap and get £300 back - I think it's fair to assume it willl last at least another 6 months given it passed it's MOT with no advisories and runs very well - so worse case it will depreciate by £900 in 2 years, or £1.23 per day.

I paid cash for it, so there is no loan. It costs me about £300 per year in servicing and bits - wiper blades and so on - another 82p per day.

Car tax is 40p per day, and inusrance is another 96p.

I get that to a fixed cost of £3.41 per day. Diesel for the journey to my parents and back costs a bit over a tenner. Ergo a return trip for up to 5 people in my car to my parents is about £15. In total. Let's be generous and say I spend an extra £1500 a year on car bits that I've forgotten about - it's still less than £20 for that journey.

I've just checked on the trainline and the cheapest return rail fare (for 2 adults and a child) is £45.75. And we'd need bus tickets each end - another £10 - total cost of a slower, less convenient, less flexible and in my experience less reliable mode of transport = £55.75.

You will also note that I didn't say we would die without the car. I said it would make life less enjoyable and/or more expensive.

I think it depends how often you go to your parents tho. If you only go once a month and it's the only thing you really need a car for, then it will cost you a lot more than £15 per journey - more like £110 according to your calculations.

Personally, I prefer to catch the bus/train if possible when going out with the family, but that's because I am the only driver in the household, which can be very tiring sometimes. Also on the bus/train I don't get stressed from all the traffic, I don't have to worry about parking the car, I can actually take in the scenery and I can have a drink if I want. I could even rest my eyes if I so pleased (like the rest of family like to do in the car while I drive them home after a long day out).

For a while I used a folder and cycled/bussed to work out in the sticks. This required getting up a bit earlier to get the bus, but also meant I put in an extra half hour overtime every morning. The journey took a fixed 50 mins instead of the 30-50 mins it took by car, but the best thing was I could chat with the other passengers, read the free newspaper, gaze out of the window, browse the internet on my phone and generally just chill out and let the driver get stressed dealing with the traffic. I had an old banger like kneesup at the time, and the fuel costs were more than my weekly bus pass.

Where I work they think I am mad tho, because they do not believe it is possible to cycle more than a mile - now I cycle regularly I can do the 13 mile journey in less than 40 minutes on a daily basis.

 

[Nigeyy]

I meant it more in the vein of you could just pack up your job and not work -strictly speaking there really isn't anything stopping you from actually doing that. But there are repercussions....

Absolutely my choice to have kids no doubt about it. Alas, having medical issues with one of my kids isn't a choice I made and it necessitates easy access to large hospital-like medical care. But hey, such is life (I mean who said it was going to be easy?)

I don't think it's that binary though; I'm a bit of an optimist and I think you can change a lot in your life -you just have to be prepared to accept different (as in worse and better) stuff. But still no doubt for me: work, kids, medical stuff,etc really do effectively limit choices (and I don't mean that in a negative way either, more just as a statement of fact).

Reminds me of when my brother complained about paying his mortgage: I think he expected some sympathy but I replied that it was his choice to buy a house!

Is the only choice between doing the job you currently do in the place(s) you do it vs not providing/sponging.

A startlingly binary life we lead!

btw those kids.... your choice too