Got your Pinarello T shirt but not the bike?

[Cycleops]

Well do not worry, their CEO is now ready to sell their race inspired brand to the tiresome lower orders;

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-gear/pinarello-marketing-interview/

 

[Drago]

‘We’re not here to just sell t-shirts’​

No indeed. They're here to sell their Taiwanese frames at a huge mark-up to people that buy into the clever marketing that milks their prestigious distant history for all its worth.

 

[AndyRM]

What does it matter where the frame is made? They're not claiming otherwise and most frames are manufactured in Taiwan in any case.

 

[Cycleops]

This is all about the power of brand isn't it?
If Pinarello are able to claim that their far Eastern made frames and design is better than any other makers frame and cyclists believe it then good for them. The X on the rear triangle reinforces their superiority, if you choose to believe it. The feel good factor is hard to refute when you're atop the brand that was used by X number of riders in TdF.

 

[AndyRM]

This is all about the power of brand isn't it?
If Pinarello are able to claim that their far Eastern made frames and design is better than any other makers frame and cyclists believe it then good for them. The X on the rear triangle reinforces their superiority, if you choose to believe it. The feel good factor is hard to refute when you're atop the brand that was used by X number of riders in TdF.

Exactly. It's the same with any high end brand, be it clothing, electronics, cars or whatever.

 

[Drago]

What does it matter where the frame is made? They're not claiming otherwise and most frames are manufactured in Taiwan in any case.

It doesn't. I know that, you know that. Indeed, some of the best expertise in CF bicycle frame manufacturing is to be found there.

Yet many don't know this about the manufacturing origin, and fervently believe they are of Italian manufacture and paid extra whike thinking that.

Others overlook this willfully thinking they're somehow buying Italian heritage. They're not. There is no meaningful heritage in a historic brand name being applied to a mass produced far Eastern item.

The manufacturer themselves, or more accurately the brand, do not deny it, yet there is zero mention of it on their website or publicity material. Conversely, they use the meaningless phrase "Italian DNA" quite a lot, and the gullible may take to mean something entirely different.

Even the frames labelled "Made in Italy" are nothing of the sort. They are simply painted and finished there, which under a quirk of Italian law is sufficient for them to legally carry the M.I.I. tag. Cheeky.

Nothing wrong with them as a product whatsoever, but using a non existent heritage to bump the asking price is a bit rich to say the least. Still, while fools continue to fall for it then brands will keep trying this sort of thing. They're not outright conning anyone, but they're using misdirection and obfuscation as part of their selling and marketing process.

If I could think of a wheeze like that I'd be happy to part folk from their money, but its still morally questionable even if it isn't unlawful.

 

[Cycleops]

Quite a number of manufacturers trade on their glories bit past and present, don't know that it's morally questionable as most are aware of the current lineage.
If we look outside the bicycle industry at say confectionery Cadbury trade on their bygone chocolate but the current product bears absolutely no relation to their products of old.

 

[wafter]

Quite a number of manufacturers trade on their glories bit past and present, don't know that it's morally questionable as most are aware of the current lineage.
If we look outside the bicycle industry at say confectionery Cadbury trade on their bygone chocolate but the current product bears absolutely no relation to their products of old.

The fact that some punters know they're being bullsh*tted, or that lots of brands are at it doesn't make it right though, does it?

Smacks of cynical marketing and willful manipulation when some companies go out of their way to suggest their products are something they're not, and begs the question of how else an untrustworty company might be misleading their customers..

Sales and marketing should be about making a reasonable profit by promoting a product through its legitimate merits rather than a competition to see who can bullsh*t the customer the most to make the highest margin. Buying a product should be a fair, informed trade; not a one-sided transaction where the customer is the victim..

Sadly I think most marketing is long-past the point of having any moral integrity and now it's all out psychological warfare on the consumer; leveraging every vulnerability against them to take their money..

 

[DogmaStu]

It doesn't. I know that, you know that. Indeed, some of the best expertise in CF bicycle frame manufacturing is to be found there.

Yet many don't know this about the manufacturing origin, and fervently believe they are of Italian manufacture and paid extra whike thinking that.

Others overlook this willfully thinking they're somehow buying Italian heritage. They're not. There is no meaningful heritage in a historic brand name being applied to a mass produced far Eastern item.

The manufacturer themselves, or more accurately the brand, do not deny it, yet there is zero mention of it on their website or publicity material. Conversely, they use the meaningless phrase "Italian DNA" quite a lot, and the gullible may take to mean something entirely different.

Even the frames labelled "Made in Italy" are nothing of the sort. They are simply painted and finished there, which under a quirk of Italian law is sufficient for them to legally carry the M.I.I. tag. Cheeky.

Nothing wrong with them as a product whatsoever, but using a non existent heritage to bump the asking price is a bit rich to say the least. Still, while fools continue to fall for it then brands will keep trying this sort of thing. They're not outright conning anyone, but they're using misdirection and obfuscation as part of their selling and marketing process.

If I could think of a wheeze like that I'd be happy to part folk from their money, but its still morally questionable even if it isn't unlawful.

Ok...so I own a Pinarello Dogma F. Exact same spec that Tom Pidcock and the rest of the Ineos boys ride just a different colour. Mine looks like an anorexic Holstein's cow.

The frame does not say 'Made in Italy' anywhere. It does say that the carbon used to make it is Torayka T1100G 1K.
https://www.toraycma.com/wp-content/uploads/T1100G-Technical-Data-Sheet-1.pdf.pdf

The carbon sheets are...made in...the USA! Their 'top-of-the-range' carbon.

An Asian factory then builds the frame to...Pinarello's design spec.

The frames and forks are then shipped to Treviso, Italy for the final prep, sanding, cleaning and painting.

Shimano Dura Ace is the most preferred component group matched to the Pinarello carbon. These are made in Malaysia/China.

I can't imagine anyone today not knowing that the bike is not 100% Italian. It's pretty obvious it is only Italian designed and finished and Pinarello offer Factory Tours that demonstrate this to prospective buyers who want that experience.

As for riding the bike...I've covered 7364km on it so far this year and it does offer a different feel to my Trek and Wilier road bikes. Chasing segment times it seems to combine the best of both those bikes; one overtly aero and the other pure climbing. However, it is more about how it rides.

I've ridden and owned many bikes since I started racing in the late 1980's so I feel I am 'qualified' to compare different bikes. I didn't buy the Dogma F because of Italian heritage, I bought it because the ride it provides suits me best over other bikes I've owned and tried.

That said, is it worth £14k? That's obviously subjective. Any 'real World' speed performance gains it offers over a bike half that price is marginal. Very marginal. Unnoticeable in most cases. But...it is a noticeably 'nicer' pure race bike to ride than any other I've ridden. To my personal 'feels'. The carbon is stiff yet relatively comfortable; I've taken it on gravel sections and it felt fine. It just seems to find that ideal balance of various attributes one wants from a bike with an aero race geometry at a low weight.

The 'Heritage' of the Dogma model is purely based upon what Team Sky and Ineos have done with it and, like any bike, that's really down to the riders themselves more than the bike involved. All high-end bikes will be roughly similar in terms of outright performance, we may just feel one suits us better overall - and that could even be just how it looks!

Just because we choose to splash out on a bike we like that costs a bit more than most, doesn't mean we are 'that' stupid and don't know what we are buying. 😱

 

[AndyRM]

Ok...so I own a Pinarello Dogma F. Exact same spec that Tom Pidcock and the rest of the Ineos boys ride just a different colour. Mine looks like an anorexic Holstein's cow.

View attachment 710336

The frame does not say 'Made in Italy' anywhere. It does say that the carbon used to make it is Torayka T1100G 1K.
https://www.toraycma.com/wp-content/uploads/T1100G-Technical-Data-Sheet-1.pdf.pdf

The carbon sheets are...made in...the USA! Their 'top-of-the-range' carbon.

An Asian factory then builds the frame to...Pinarello's design spec.

The frames and forks are then shipped to Treviso, Italy for the final prep, sanding, cleaning and painting.

Shimano Dura Ace is the most preferred component group matched to the Pinarello carbon. These are made in Malaysia/China.

I can't imagine anyone today not knowing that the bike is not 100% Italian. It's pretty obvious it is only Italian designed and finished and Pinarello offer Factory Tours that demonstrate this to prospective buyers who want that experience.

As for riding the bike...I've covered 7364km on it so far this year and it does offer a different feel to my Trek and Wilier road bikes. Chasing segment times it seems to combine the best of both those bikes; one overtly aero and the other pure climbing. However, it is more about how it rides.

I've ridden and owned many bikes since I started racing in the late 1980's so I feel I am 'qualified' to compare different bikes. I didn't buy the Dogma F because of Italian heritage, I bought it because the ride it provides suits me best over other bikes I've owned and tried.

That said, is it worth £14k? That's obviously subjective. Any 'real World' speed performance gains it offers over a bike half that price is marginal. Very marginal. Unnoticeable in most cases. But...it is a noticeably 'nicer' pure race bike to ride than any other I've ridden. To my personal 'feels'. The carbon is stiff yet relatively comfortable; I've taken it on gravel sections and it felt fine. It just seems to find that ideal balance of various attributes one wants from a bike with an aero race geometry at a low weight.

The 'Heritage' of the Dogma model is purely based upon what Team Sky and Ineos have done with it and, like any bike, that's really down to the riders themselves more than the bike involved. All high-end bikes will be roughly similar in terms of outright performance, we may just feel one suits us better overall - and that could even be just how it looks!

Just because we choose to splash out on a bike we like that costs a bit more than most, doesn't mean we are 'that' stupid and don't know what we are buying. 😱

Well said. Lovely bike too!

 

[Sunny Portrush]

Not on the same scale but when I returned to cycling about 15 years ago, I bought a lovely white Cannondale as it looked awesome in the shop. Sad to say it's no longer white despite my attempts to keep it clean, perhaps carbon will stay whiter than aluminium!

 

[fossyant]

I think only Colnago assemble its C series in Italy. Its other bikes are Taiwan, including this,

which only cost me £330.

I shan't be getting the T-shirts.

 

[Bollo]

Sadly I think most marketing is long-past the point of having any moral integrity and now it's all out psychological warfare on the consumer; leveraging every vulnerability against them to take their money..

From the 1950s…

 

[Cycleops]

Not on the same scale but when I returned to cycling about 15 years ago, I bought a lovely white Cannondale as it looked awesome in the shop. Sad to say it's no longer white despite my attempts to keep it clean, perhaps carbon will stay whiter than aluminium!

Just keep repeating that to yourself as you're slamming down your debit/credit card.