GRX Chainset with 105 R7000

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Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
I'm bringing forward my plan to replace my 105 50/34 chainset with a GRX 46/30. I was going to wait until the current chainset was well and truly worn out but I've become impatient.

The bike has 105 R7000 (11s) mechanical at the moment. I'd like to keep as much of that stuff as possible. Mainly to make the job easier. I intend to replace the cassette and chain at the same time so I make a new start with all new stuff.

The rear mech shouldn't be an issue capacity wise as the capacity is the same (50-34=16=46-30)

The bike is a steel framed bike and the front mech is band-on so I should be able to slip it down a few mm for the new smaller rings.
I may replace the RS500 bottom bracket while I'm at it because they don't last forever and the current one isn't a spring chicken.

This random website says it's all compatible https://www.cyclabo.com/topics/au0vhheojb/#compatibility-between-grx-and-road-105

But the Man from Spa Cycles says "a 105 front mech won't have quite enough throw to reach for the chainset, which sits 1.5mm further out."

Following the advice of the Man from Spa Cycles would mean fitting a new GRX front mech. As I can only find braze-on FD-RX810 in braze-on this would mean buying a separate clamp too. This all increases the amount of faff a lot and the expense a bit, but tbh expense is not the main concern. I can afford a new mech if I need it. It's more the faff that concerns me.

So my conundrum is: Do I believe the Man from Spa Cycles and get a new front mech? Or do I ignore him, cross my fingers, just get the chainset, then end up kicking myself when it doesn't work, order a mech have to wait while the new mech arrives, then find that the clamp is the wrong size or something like that, with my bike having been put out of action in the meantime?

Also, what the Man from Spa Cycles says worries me. If the chainrings sit 1.5mm further out, will that bugger up the shifting at the rear. It's tempting to ignore him and believe the random website, because I prefer its version of the truth, but it's a bit worrying.

As an aside, I could probably get a similar sized non-Shimano square taper chainset and fit a corresponding cartridge BB but that doesn't actually have any advantage that I can see and introduces a whole slew of new "will it work" and "what size BB" questions so I rejected that option as having more risk and no benefit. Case closed.

Anticipating the fact that CC posters tend to ignore specific questions and simply reply "you don't want to do that": Yes, I've done the gear ratio sums. Yes I do want to do that. No I don't want to fit an 8-speed triple, get a new bike, replace the chainrings individually, have my knees replaced, take up macramé instead of cycling or anything else like that.
 
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Paulus

Started young, and still going.
Location
Barnet,
I'm bringing forward my plan to replace my 105 50/34 chainset with a GRX 46/30. I was going to wait until the current chainset was well and truly worn out but I've become impatient.

The bike has 105 R7000 (11s) mechanical at the moment. I'd like to keep as much of that stuff as possible. Mainly to make the job easier. I intend to replace the cassette and chain at the same time so I make a new start with all new stuff.

The rear mech shouldn't be an issue capacity wise as the capacity is the same (50-34=16=46-30)

The bike is a steel framed bike and the front mech is band-on so I should be able to slip it down a few mm for the new smaller rings.
I may replace the RS500 bottom bracket while I'm at it because they don't last forever and the current one isn't a spring chicken.

This random website says it's all compatible https://www.cyclabo.com/topics/au0vhheojb/#compatibility-between-grx-and-road-105

But the Man from Spa Cycles says "a 105 front mech won't have quite enough throw to reach for the chainset, which sits 1.5mm further out."

Following the advice of the man from Spa would mean fitting a new GRX front mech. As I can only find braze-on FD-RX810 in braze-on this would mean buying a separate clamp too. This all increases the amount of faff a lot and the expense a bit, but tbh expense is not the main concern. I can afford a new mech if I need it. It's more the faff that concerns me.

So my conundrum is: Do I believe the Man from Spa Cycles and get a new front mech? Or do I ignore him, cross my fingers, just get the chainset, then end up kicking myself when it doesn't work, order a mech have to wait while the new mech arrives, then find that the clamp is the wrong size or something like that, with my bike having been put out of action in the meantime?

Also, what the Man from Spa Cycles says worries me. If the chainrings sit 1.5mm further out, will that bugger up the shifting at the rear. It's tempting to ignore him and believe the random website, because I prefer its version of the truth, but it's a bit worrying.

As an aside, I could probably get a similar sized non-Shimano square taper chainset and fit a corresponding cartridge BB but that doesn't actually have any advantage that I can see and introduces a whole slew of new "will it work" and "what size BB" questions so I rejected that option as having more risk and no benefit. Case closed.

Anticipating the fact that CC posters tend to ignore specific questions and simply reply "you don't want to do that": Yes, I've done the gear ratio sums. Yes I do want to do that. No I don't want to fit an 8-speed triple, get a new bike, replace the chainrings, have my knees replaced, take up macramé instead of cycling or anything else like that.

Just recently I have reduced the Chainrings. With just a little adjustment of the limit screws the shifting is fine.
So my advice is try it and see what happens first before buying any more new kit.
 

All uphill

Still rolling along
Location
Somerset
I looked at something similar a couple of years ago and was also told (not by Spa) that GRX sits a wee bit further out. Having said that 1.5 is not much.

In your shoes I'd do as @Paulus suggests and try it. I think it will be fine. If not you still have the option of going square taper BB.

The other option I can see is buying a crank set that has the same offset as the 105 one; I'm not sure if you've already got the GRX one.

Edit: A quick Google suggests that most GRX is 2.5mm further out than 105.
My suggestion of GRX with square taper is of course stupid. Sorry.
 
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wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Having been well down this rabbithole yes, the chainline is further out on GRX and consistently quoted at 47mm. 105 values appear less reliable at (it seems) anything from 43.5 to 45.5mm; although the difference between the two is regularly quoted at 2.5mm.

Some sources suggest that the 105 FD will fit if the limit screws are tweaked enough so you could always try this first if you're not desperate to get the conversion done in one hit. You're correct that the GRX FDs are only available in braze-on fitment and that an adaptor is needed.

I think there are two variants of said band-on adaptor - one native to 34.9mm (M-suffix?) and one to 31.8mm(?) (S-suffix?) ; both coming with at least one set of placcy adaptors to suit the sizes beneath including one for skinnier steel tubes. I went with the larger one allow fitment to the 31.8mm tube on the bike with an adaptor since this is much less likely to damage the paint / tube.

I'd not worry about chainline differences affecting functionality - on the usual 135mm QR / 142mm TA standard the chainline of the cassette is 50mm anyway, so even with GRX's increase you're remaining inboard of the optimum position - presumably since maintaining narrower cranks "because aero" was more important to shimano than keeping an optimal chainline / not knackering people's feet, knees and hips..
 

diplodicus

Active Member
I have done this on my gravel bike. The chain rings are definitely further out and really struggled with shifting into the big ring.
I didn't know about the fact grx sits futher out so carried on trying to make the 105 mech work.

My eventual work around was to fit washers between the chain set arms and the chain rings. This moved the rings back in toward the bike and allows shifting with 105 to an acceptable level.

I am not sure if this is a hack or bodge? :laugh:
 

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Über Member
Location
Hampshire, UK
The only time I don't like having a 46T ring on my gravel ebike instead of the 50T on my road bike is on a select few wide, fairly straight descents on my local hills, where I have to stop pedalling a bit sooner and get a bit aero to let the mass of me and bike (~110Kg) take over to reach ~40mph.
 
OP
OP
Dogtrousers

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
The only time I don't like having a 46T ring on my gravel ebike instead of the 50T on my road bike is on a select few wide, fairly straight descents on my local hills, where I have to stop pedalling a bit sooner and get a bit aero to let the mass of me and bike (~110Kg) take over to reach ~40mph.

Shouldn't affect me. For me downhills are free distance so I stop pedalling as soon as I'm sure I won't grind to a halt. I don't want to use up pedal revs that I might need later on. ;)

I'm on the brakes way before I get to those kinds of speed. Me and my bike do weigh about that though :smile:
 

SpokeyDokey

69, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Step 1: need to determine how much more throw the current 105 FD will give you: if >1.5mm more then go for it.
Assuming you have the current upshift correct with the chain nicely climbing onto the large ring.
Go there. Then remove the chain and unscrew the high limit screw a turn or two (care not right out).
By hand how far right can you shift the cage? 2mm? Happy days.
Otherwise the less-faff and expense route is to replace the BB with one with square taper and obtain a 46-30 ST chainset with (in combo with the BB) a compatible chainline at the FD. Despite your concern expressed this is a low risk, yes it will work option. But anyone with 11sp 7000 groupset could not possibly fit an ST chainset, hence your "case closed".
A change of chainset will not affect the chainline at the rear dropout: non-issue.
 
OP
OP
Dogtrousers

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
Otherwise the less-faff and expense route is to replace the BB with one with square taper and obtain a 46-30 ST chainset with (in combo with the BB) a compatible chainline at the FD. Despite your concern expressed this is a low risk, yes it will work option. But anyone with 11sp 7000 groupset could not possibly fit an ST chainset, hence your "case closed".
Thanks - but I have questions (think "thick" rather than "ungrateful")

I'm good with things I have experience of, but that's a very narrow field. If something's not in Richard's Bicycle book I regard it as a newfangled mystery and I struggle unless I've actually owned an example. And as my bike turnover is very low, that's not a lot.

ST - assume Square Taper. OK, I've dealt with them before. I do know they come in many sizes.

... ST chainset with (in combo with the BB) a compatible chainline at the FD". How do I know what a "compatible chainline" is? This is now running into the risk of ordering the wrong size BB and I'm beginning to step away from the option as something I'm not prepared to do myself. I foresee an endless round of buying the wrong thing, returning it finding the right thing is out of stock.

But anyone with 11sp 7000 groupset could not possibly fit an ST chainset, hence your "case closed". Whoosh! Sorry I don't understand that at all.

Expense doesn't bother me. I mean within reason, I'm not going to buy diamond encrusted Ultegra cranks for fun, but I don't mind throwing a few hundred at the project. I'm not going to be penny pinching.

Faff does bother me.

Sorry, I'm just being thick about this.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
If something's not in Richard's Bicycle book . . .
ST - assume Square Taper.
... ST chainset with (in combo with the BB) a compatible chainline at the FD". How do I know what a "compatible chainline" is? This is now running into the risk of ordering the wrong size BB and I'm beginning to step away from the option as something I'm not prepared to do myself.
I have Richard's Bicycle Book right beside me.
A suitable ST chainset (46-30) might be this one:
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s10...per-Compact-Double-Chainset-with-Zicral-Rings
Note the 46t has a 110mm BCD and the 30 has a 76mm, for info.
You also have the option to select a shorter crank which the smaller rings will allow you to push with ease.
They recommend a (ST) bottom bracket of 119mm (which gives a 47mm chainline). For a 45mm chainline, a 115mm will get you back to the chainline that your FD-R7000 can push to (you've tested its limit already).
Your BB shell is normal BSA threaded, I believe.
Hope this helps (and the Spa Cycles guy is more likely to be right, provided your Q is clear, than any "random website" however tempting.
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OP
OP
Dogtrousers

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
Right. I think I now have enough info. I will cogitate during the festivities and decide what to do in the new year. I may even post pictures when it's done.

Thanks all.
 
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