Guardian article(with links) about why female cyclists are more vulnerable to lorries

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dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
Are you sure about that? Overall throughout the country I'd be safe to assume that cars kill more cyclists then trucks. Prove me wrong though by posting a link to TfL website if you wish.

Off the top of my head: Lorries make up about 2.5% of traffic and account fot about 25% of cyclist fatalities.

But in London they actually kill more in absolute numbers.
" Last year, 10 out of 13 fatal cycling accidents in the capital were women, and eight of them were killed by HGVs, according to the cycling campaign group CTC."
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
I'm a woman and I think think in general we are less assertive. I'm slow going up hill and I do know that I have a tendency to go slightly closer to the kerb in those situations - but not in the gutter. On the flat or downhill I feel much happier keeping up with the traffic and I'm then much more assertive. I think it is a gender thing ... perhaps down to being slower, less aggressive etc. When I first returned to cycling I wasn't aware of the risks around lorries, but through reading/training/experience I'm much more assertive ...

Even my 9 year old son knows to respect lorries and about their blind spots - I suspect far better than a large number of adults due to the fact he has to cycle past them every day on route to school - so he is getting plenty of experience.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
I'm not, read my post again, most cyclists bring it on themselves.

You know my opinions on this.
The roads are an entirely artificial construction devoid of natural hazards. They are intended for the safe movement of all traffic, not just those individuals experienced and tough enough to survive.
Society consists of the young and ignorant, the old and infirm, the halt and the lame and the just plain bloody stupid. Life may cull them but the roads should not be part of this and no driver should ever think that they are.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
So the other 75% relates to non HGV vechicles, I rest my case.

Lorries kill a disproportionate number of cyclists (and probably motorists too tho' I've not checked this) nationally but in the Capital they kill more in real terms. This is consistant with my assertion that they cannot be used safely in towns.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
London is heavier traffic, intense junctions and lane swapping, seems to me almost every death or serious accident i read about is a lady cyclist being hit by a left turning skip/dumper truck with the odd artic

I see more and more lady riders that are clearly very aware of the danger of long vehicles to the point that they refuse to pass them on the inside regardless, that said, still plenty of riders, of both sexes doing ridiculous things in traffic routinely that don't result in accidents only becauseof drivers anticipating them

swerving across lanes with no conception that they might be moving into/across the path of something faster than them is the usual

with a recent fashion of cutting across a line of traffic as the lights change
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
I agree, but having a cyclist described as above riding in traffic in a busy city/town? Could well be asking for trouble.

It's the inexperienced and the foolish that you have to watch out for. Don't cynically dismiss them as candidates for Dawin Awards.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
Ok, but if you take the amount of trucks that drive in towns everyday and then compare to the amount involved in incidents. The % is very, very small.

Accidents are rare, but most are unnecessary even so and all are tragedies.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
As a general rule women tend to be less spatially aware & tend to find it harder to conceptualise the changing geometry due to movement compared to men*. I wonder how much of this causes women to make misjudgements & so the decision of where to put the bike on the road won't be as well informed compared to most men? Sure bad road position is no excuse but putting your self in a less visible position requires more attention from a driver who already is dealing with information overload.

* Certainly when dealing with driver training there is generally more coaching needed to get a woman to understand where a particular part of the car will end up. When doing demo lap lines marking most of the time women have a much harder time on absolutely nailing the reference clipping points while compared to men with the same level of general line & car handling style.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
I've seen a lot of obviously new cyclists on the road these last few weeks. It's a wonder that any survive at all.
The odd thing is though, that when accidents are reported it usually seems to involve exprienced cyclists cycling to or from jobs that do not mark them down as being fools. I think that one of the most recent was a University Professor.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
dondare... just because a Professor is clever in one field mean that they have a real grasp of common sense. In fact my general observation is the higher academic aptitude the lower the level of common sense people have in dealing with things out side their specialism.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
Lorry drivers cannot see cyclists 9 times out of 10. However, cyclists can see lorries, and are manoeverable enough to keep out of the way, if they understand the way that a lorry moves. (And the pedestrian railings aren't blocking the only escape route.)
That's being pragmatic and is the most sensible point to approach the problem from.

But I still say over one death per month, every month, is proof that lorries aren't safe in towns. You can say whether you think the figure is low enough to be acceptable.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
GrasB said:
dondare... just because a Professor is clever in one field mean that they have a real grasp of common sense. In fact my general observation is the higher academic aptitude the lower the level of common sense people have in dealing with things out side their specialism.

Don't get me started about professors, I work with them at the University.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
User3143 said:
True, I've got an IQ of 133 but forgot to take out my wallet out of my trouser pockets before putting them in the washing machine over the weekend.
Detergents contain dyes which make bank notes fluoresce. Just like counterfeit notes.
Knowing this fact can save embarrassment.
 

tongskie01

Active Member
dondare said:
Lorry drivers cannot see cyclists 9 times out of 10. However, cyclists can see lorries, and are manoeverable enough to keep out of the way, if they understand the way that a lorry moves. (And the pedestrian railings aren't blocking the only escape route.)
That's being pragmatic and is the most sensible point to approach the problem from.

But I still say over one death per month, every month, is proof that lorries aren't safe in towns. You can say whether you think the figues is low enough to be acceptable.

i dont position myself beside lorries where i can't see the driver on his wing mirror...or im gonna turn into a pancake....
 
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