Has anyone rode through Germany?

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OP
GmanUK65

GmanUK65

Über Member
A bit pointless to be planning for something so far ahead in terms of routes and bike buying. Anything could happen in the meantime.
Wait until nearer the time, then do all your research, there could be new routes by then, new touring bikes, anything.Or you could have just changed your mind
I think this idea could cause some problems. Say I did wait till closer the time and then realised I haven't given myself enough time to do the research, that would put a spanner in the works and cause me to give up. About the bike buying - part of my planning is to do short trips around the UK to practice for the big one so I need a bike to do this. So researching well in advance seems the best option for me.
 
I think this idea could cause some problems. Say I did wait till closer the time and then realised I haven't given myself enough time to do the research, that would put a spanner in the works and cause me to give up. About the bike buying - part of my planning is to do short trips around the UK to practice for the big one so I need a bike to do this. So researching well in advance seems the best option for me.

I really cannot get my head around your thinking and time scales regarding tour research. , with acesss to the internet it is so easy to get the information you need, other peoples journals covering the area you wish to explore will in most cases give you all the information you need. However if you are really going to adventurous, and ride something the Pamir Highway and the various visas you need, then some forward planning is required. Anywhere in Europe is no problems, just pack your panniers and away you go,
As to which bike, just look at the loads and treatment bikes in Asia and Africa get, you up can see that even a cheap bike can carry you far, with just the light load that you would put on it.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
About the bike buying - part of my planning is to do short trips around the UK to practice for the big one so I need a bike to do this. So researching well in advance seems the best option for me.
Yes, get a bike capable of carrying a load and get the miles in to improve cycle fitness and gain practical experience of cycle touring.
Learn a few German words in order to help you along, but no need for much research before visiting a country not so very different from our own. (Although considerably more cycle friendly:okay:.)
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
A bit pointless to be planning for something so far ahead in terms of routes and bike buying. Anything could happen in the meantime.
Wait until nearer the time, then do all your research, there could be new routes by then, new touring bikes, anything.Or you could have just changed your mind

I think this idea could cause some problems. Say I did wait till closer the time and then realised I haven't given myself enough time to do the research, that would put a spanner in the works and cause me to give up. About the bike buying - part of my planning is to do short trips around the UK to practice for the big one so I need a bike to do this. So researching well in advance seems the best option for me.

I don't think User46386 is saying to NOT do any research just that perhaps such a long time 2 years before is perhaps a little pointless for the reasons they give. Germany isn't exactly a third world country or off the beaten track in the wilds of nowhere, well it wasn't the last time I was there about 20 years ago. Cycling there is relatively easy and far more cycle friendly than in the UK. Now with the internet and especially YT you can do so much more better targeted research a lot more quickly and equip yourself with the relevant stuff so much more easily. If you already ride regularly then you could easily just take your existing bike. If as others have suggested you were riding somewhere a lot more adventurous or demanding should we say, like the Pamir Highway then a dedicated touring bike might be a more suitable choice of steed. I would have thought planning 3-6 months before would give you more than ample time to prepare yourself for your trip. It is not as if your are planning to ride around the world.

Also I feel I must point out your title grates as it should read "Has anyone ridden through Germany?" not rode.
 
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I think this idea could cause some problems. Say I did wait till closer the time and then realised I haven't given myself enough time to do the research, that would put a spanner in the works and cause me to give up. About the bike buying - part of my planning is to do short trips around the UK to practice for the big one so I need a bike to do this. So researching well in advance seems the best option for me.

Fair enough. If that's a concern, plan in a way that makes you feel comfortable, learn from it, use what you learned next time. Enjoy. Repeat.
 
OP
OP
GmanUK65

GmanUK65

Über Member
I don't think User46386 is saying to NOT do any research just that perhaps such a long time 2 years before is perhaps a little pointless for the reasons they give. Germany isn't exactly a third world country or off the beaten track in the wilds of nowhere, well it wasn't the last time I was there about 20 years ago. Cycling there is relatively easy and far more cycle friendly than in the UK. Now with the internet and especially YT you can do so much more better targeted research a lot more quickly and equip yourself with the relevant stuff so much more easily. If you already ride regularly then you could easily just take your existing bike. If as others have suggested you were riding somewhere a lot more adventurous or demanding should we say, like the Pamir Highway then a dedicated touring bike might be a more suitable choice of steed. I would have thought planning 3-6 months before would give you more than ample time to prepare yourself for your trip. It is not as if your are planning to ride around the world.

Also I feel I must point out your title grates as it should read "Has anyone ridden through Germany?" not rode.
I do agree with some of your points but the reason I am planning so early is to keep the dream alive. I am not just planning on just going through Germany but then through Austria, Italy, France, Spain (if I have time), Belgium, back to Netherlands and then home. I also don't know how much this will cost me, so having a vague idea of the route will tell me how long it will take me (maximum 3 months) and this may help me in having some idea of the costs for such as camping, food etc
 
I do agree with some of your points but the reason I am planning so early is to keep the dream alive. I am not just planning on just going through Germany but then through Austria, Italy, France, Spain (if I have time), Belgium, back to Netherlands and then home. I also don't know how much this will cost me, so having a vague idea of the route will tell me how long it will take me (maximum 3 months) and this may help me in having some idea of the costs for such as camping, food etc
I've done multiple +4 month long tours.
I keep to a reasonably basic diet, sandwiches + pasta & bits at night, while camping.
I tend not not to eat out or drink alcohol as these bump the cost up.
I'd recon on roughly 25 Euro per day or ~£2,000 for the whole trip.

12 weeks at 6 days per week in the saddle, say 70 days.
6 hours per day cycling at around 12 mph on the flat, say 70 miles per day.
You may cycle for longer on easy days and also you probably won't go so far if your unfit/on hilly days.
So very very roughly a tour length of about 5,000 miles.

As for the bike.
You need to find/build one which you're happy with.
What range of gears do you want? double or triple chainrings? can you use MTB chainrings with your shifters? how low do you want/need to go? What size steps between the gears are you happy with? is there a bad step in your cruising gears? etc,etc ??
Get them all right and you'll have a great tour ........ weather permitting ........ ^_^
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
@Andy in Germany - when cycling in Germany if there is a cycle path running alongside a road or even near a road MUST you use it or can you just choose to cycle on the road?
"cyclists are allowed to ride contraflow in selected one-way streets, and in so-called bicycle streets cyclists may make use of the whole street whereas cars have to stay behind the cyclists. As in some Scandinavian countries, cycle tracks in Germany can be made compulsory only if they meet appropriate minimum quality standard, otherwise cyclists may choose not to use cycle track" https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road...egulations_for_cyclists_and_their_vehicles_en
 
Location
España
Considering I spend a lot of my cycling time on my €200 commuter bike and it hasn't collapsed yet, I'd say that's doable. I think we have a tendency to over plan when going somewhere new.

My €30 MTB/commuter just passed the 10,000 km mark. 1 chain, 1 cassette and 1 gear cable as well as a couple of hours a month cleaning and oiling.
My €200 MTB tourer has clocked up about 10,000 km loaded touring in the last 3 years. And about another 8000 km unloaded.



I do agree with some of your points but the reason I am planning so early is to keep the dream alive. I am not just planning on just going through Germany but then through Austria, Italy, France, Spain (if I have time), Belgium, back to Netherlands and then home. I also don't know how much this will cost me, so having a vague idea of the route will tell me how long it will take me (maximum 3 months) and this may help me in having some idea of the costs for such as camping, food etc


My impression when I read your original post was that this was someone who has just had an idea and is throwing out questions without doing any research themselves. I mean, cycling in Germany is not difficult and information about long distance cycling in Germany is available online quicker than the time it took to write your post.

And in your other thread, about which bike to buy, there are signs that made me think the same thing.
But call me a softie, your reference to keeping the dream alive hit a nerve, so I’m going to offer some further advice on both your topics.
You want to cycle tour in NL, Germany, Austria, France & Spain. Well, I’ve toured in all those places and they are great places to tour.
You’ve got up to 3 months to do that. And lucky you to have that time!

Other than the countries, what are the places you want to visit/see? Do you know yet, or is it just a case of hitting each of those countries?
Where do you really want to see?
What interests you? Architecture? Coastline? Cities? Food? Drink?
If you’re not sure yet, start reading! As mentioned above Crazyguyonabike has thousands of bike journals of people who have cycled all these places. You can see and read about their experiences. If something fires you up, add that to the places you want to visit.

Next, how do you want to travel? Is it solely by bike, or are you open to taking a train? A train opens up a greater range of travel, or allows you to travel slower and still hit all your sweet points. To know how far you want to travel, you need to know how far you can travel! The only research that will tell you that is actually doing! There’s no point in planning a tour that expects 100+km per day only to discover that the max you’re comfortable with is 50km. Sure, you can push yourself, but there is a great chance that you will not enjoy it. Or even bail.

When will you be travelling? To hit all the countries you’re talking about means crossing mountains. Mountains can be impassable, or have limited route options at certain times of the year.

You’re going to be camping? Do you camp? Do you know what you need? Do you know what will make it more comfortable? There’s a big difference between a week tour where you can tolerate discomfort and a 3 month tour where the effect is cumulative. Stealth camping or campsites? Will you be cooking? Carrying food? Do you know what food to be bringing? Are you comfortable with amusing yourself on a long wet night in the middle of nowhere?

What about navigation? Using maps? A GPS? A smartphone? Are you familiar with whatever method you’re going to use? If using electronics how will you charge them?

Going solo or with other people? If solo, can you handle the loneliness? What about shopping and bike security? Stealth camping alone can be intimidating. If with others how do you get on? Cycle together or meet at the end of the day? Compatible skills and fitness levels? Are your motivations similar?

Bike. Can you do basic repairs or will you be using bike shops as necessary? Will it carry the load you need it to carry and will it be stable doing so? Most important – is it comfortable for you?

Of all the points above, the motivation – what you want to see and do – is the most important, in my opinion. If that’s wrong then everything else won’t make up for it.

You’ve started a debate on planning and the length of time taken to plan.

Personally, planning 2 years out for a 3 month tour would drive me demented! However, every time I come across something interesting, I store it away for a trip that might be next month, next year or next decade. I suppose that could be called planning too.

The thing with plans is that often they should be changed when they’re implemented for the simple reason that reality is never the same as the plan. I’ve met a fair few people on my travels who gave all the impression of people being slaves to a plan (specifically a destination at a set time) and none of the impression of someone enjoying themselves.

The other thing with plans is that they should be broad in range. For example, I’ve met people who knew exactly what route they were cycling and where they were going to stay for the next 10 nights, but had no rain gear.... in the middle of a torrential Spanish downpour. (They were so miserable they were giving up their tour on Day 1!!) Similarly, many people can’t even order a cup of coffee in a foreign language or say “please” and “thank you”.

There’s always a danger of researching online that you end up doing what someone else has done (or wants to do) at the expense of what you want to do.

My advice to you is to get a bike, any bike, now, and get some gear and go away on the bike, even if it’s only 5 miles from home. Living the dream is the best way to keep it alive. And you will learn so much! About what you like to do and don’t like to do. And all the practicalities. What 100 km feels like. What a hill with an 8% gradient feels like. Why GoogleMaps should never be trusted for bike routing! ^_^ And how good it feels to be free to roam wherever you want!
I get that budget is an important factor. What I'm suggesting is that spending 100 now could save 100s later if you end up buying a bike that suits you and the way you like to tour.

That bike that you see online might seem perfect now. After a few trips you might wish you had bigger tyres for more comfort, or a dynohub for charging your phone because you keep getting lost, or a longer wheelbase because your feet keep hitting the panniers, or different gearing because those hills are a killer, or.......

Check out second hand sites. There’s no shortage of good quality bikes that you can do a tour on for very little money. This doesn’t have to be “The Touring Bike” you want, it’s your learning bike. And with the time you have on your hands, there’s lots of time to seek out the ultimate touring bike for you (armed with the knowledge you’ve gained from your learner).

It’s amazing how many fully spec’d touring bikes are for sale at anytime. I know a guy here in Holland who picks up these bikes through contacts in dealers. Highly spec’d Kogas capable of cycling around the world being sold that have only been used to do the shopping!

They thought the perfect touring bike would ease their anxiety. It didn’t.


To conclude, here are some of the things that I learned by actually getting up and going off on a bike that I would not have thought before I set off.

The joy is in the freedom. Not having a set plan of where to be and when to be there. Being able to wander over there if over there is more interesting. It took a while to learn that one! Still important to have a destination, though!

Even places in my own neighbourhood can seem different when I'm on the bike and have my "touring" head on.

Camping is great fun! I enjoy the whole process as much as, if not more, than the actual cycling! Even in the winter! This year I was camping in temps of -10. If someone said to me a few years ago that I would willingly sleep in a tent in winter I would have laughed my head off!

I don’t like cities. Difficult to get around and parking a fully loaded bike there is always a fear of theft. I’ve learned to camp outside cities and hit them before dawn and spend a pleasant few hours seeing the sights and watching a city wake up.

Lots and lots of people speak English. Everyone (even the French lately!) appreciate an effort in their own language. A little local lingo can open a lot of doors.

The touristy places don’t interest me. Too many people. Too difficult to get around. And not real. Their original character is lost. Small villages, cafes are the places to meet real people, feel the real country and get real information.

Rain is not that bad.... if I have the right gear.

Loooove cycling in the sun and heat!

Taking (good) photos takes a surprisingly long time. And always look behind you! some of my greatest shots are of what's behind me.

There's a lot less serial killers wandering around than we think and most people are surprisingly helpful and friendly when you're on a bike.

Never underestimate the lift being able to brew a hot drink can bring.

Lighter is not always better. Comfort is important. Especially long distance.

Cycling with others can be harder than I thought.

The hardest part of touring is the mental part. If my head isn’t right I’m not enjoying myself. If my head is right I can enjoy anything!
 
OP
OP
GmanUK65

GmanUK65

Über Member
My €30 MTB/commuter just passed the 10,000 km mark. 1 chain, 1 cassette and 1 gear cable as well as a couple of hours a month cleaning and oiling.
My €200 MTB tourer has clocked up about 10,000 km loaded touring in the last 3 years. And about another 8000 km unloaded.






My impression when I read your original post was that this was someone who has just had an idea and is throwing out questions without doing any research themselves. I mean, cycling in Germany is not difficult and information about long distance cycling in Germany is available online quicker than the time it took to write your post.

And in your other thread, about which bike to buy, there are signs that made me think the same thing.
But call me a softie, your reference to keeping the dream alive hit a nerve, so I’m going to offer some further advice on both your topics.
You want to cycle tour in NL, Germany, Austria, France & Spain. Well, I’ve toured in all those places and they are great places to tour.
You’ve got up to 3 months to do that. And lucky you to have that time!

Other than the countries, what are the places you want to visit/see? Do you know yet, or is it just a case of hitting each of those countries?
Where do you really want to see?
What interests you? Architecture? Coastline? Cities? Food? Drink?
If you’re not sure yet, start reading! As mentioned above Crazyguyonabike has thousands of bike journals of people who have cycled all these places. You can see and read about their experiences. If something fires you up, add that to the places you want to visit.

Next, how do you want to travel? Is it solely by bike, or are you open to taking a train? A train opens up a greater range of travel, or allows you to travel slower and still hit all your sweet points. To know how far you want to travel, you need to know how far you can travel! The only research that will tell you that is actually doing! There’s no point in planning a tour that expects 100+km per day only to discover that the max you’re comfortable with is 50km. Sure, you can push yourself, but there is a great chance that you will not enjoy it. Or even bail.

When will you be travelling? To hit all the countries you’re talking about means crossing mountains. Mountains can be impassable, or have limited route options at certain times of the year.

You’re going to be camping? Do you camp? Do you know what you need? Do you know what will make it more comfortable? There’s a big difference between a week tour where you can tolerate discomfort and a 3 month tour where the effect is cumulative. Stealth camping or campsites? Will you be cooking? Carrying food? Do you know what food to be bringing? Are you comfortable with amusing yourself on a long wet night in the middle of nowhere?

What about navigation? Using maps? A GPS? A smartphone? Are you familiar with whatever method you’re going to use? If using electronics how will you charge them?

Going solo or with other people? If solo, can you handle the loneliness? What about shopping and bike security? Stealth camping alone can be intimidating. If with others how do you get on? Cycle together or meet at the end of the day? Compatible skills and fitness levels? Are your motivations similar?

Bike. Can you do basic repairs or will you be using bike shops as necessary? Will it carry the load you need it to carry and will it be stable doing so? Most important – is it comfortable for you?

Of all the points above, the motivation – what you want to see and do – is the most important, in my opinion. If that’s wrong then everything else won’t make up for it.

You’ve started a debate on planning and the length of time taken to plan.

Personally, planning 2 years out for a 3 month tour would drive me demented! However, every time I come across something interesting, I store it away for a trip that might be next month, next year or next decade. I suppose that could be called planning too.

The thing with plans is that often they should be changed when they’re implemented for the simple reason that reality is never the same as the plan. I’ve met a fair few people on my travels who gave all the impression of people being slaves to a plan (specifically a destination at a set time) and none of the impression of someone enjoying themselves.

The other thing with plans is that they should be broad in range. For example, I’ve met people who knew exactly what route they were cycling and where they were going to stay for the next 10 nights, but had no rain gear.... in the middle of a torrential Spanish downpour. (They were so miserable they were giving up their tour on Day 1!!) Similarly, many people can’t even order a cup of coffee in a foreign language or say “please” and “thank you”.

There’s always a danger of researching online that you end up doing what someone else has done (or wants to do) at the expense of what you want to do.

My advice to you is to get a bike, any bike, now, and get some gear and go away on the bike, even if it’s only 5 miles from home. Living the dream is the best way to keep it alive. And you will learn so much! About what you like to do and don’t like to do. And all the practicalities. What 100 km feels like. What a hill with an 8% gradient feels like. Why GoogleMaps should never be trusted for bike routing! ^_^ And how good it feels to be free to roam wherever you want!
I get that budget is an important factor. What I'm suggesting is that spending 100 now could save 100s later if you end up buying a bike that suits you and the way you like to tour.

That bike that you see online might seem perfect now. After a few trips you might wish you had bigger tyres for more comfort, or a dynohub for charging your phone because you keep getting lost, or a longer wheelbase because your feet keep hitting the panniers, or different gearing because those hills are a killer, or.......

Check out second hand sites. There’s no shortage of good quality bikes that you can do a tour on for very little money. This doesn’t have to be “The Touring Bike” you want, it’s your learning bike. And with the time you have on your hands, there’s lots of time to seek out the ultimate touring bike for you (armed with the knowledge you’ve gained from your learner).

It’s amazing how many fully spec’d touring bikes are for sale at anytime. I know a guy here in Holland who picks up these bikes through contacts in dealers. Highly spec’d Kogas capable of cycling around the world being sold that have only been used to do the shopping!

They thought the perfect touring bike would ease their anxiety. It didn’t.


To conclude, here are some of the things that I learned by actually getting up and going off on a bike that I would not have thought before I set off.

The joy is in the freedom. Not having a set plan of where to be and when to be there. Being able to wander over there if over there is more interesting. It took a while to learn that one! Still important to have a destination, though!

Even places in my own neighbourhood can seem different when I'm on the bike and have my "touring" head on.

Camping is great fun! I enjoy the whole process as much as, if not more, than the actual cycling! Even in the winter! This year I was camping in temps of -10. If someone said to me a few years ago that I would willingly sleep in a tent in winter I would have laughed my head off!

I don’t like cities. Difficult to get around and parking a fully loaded bike there is always a fear of theft. I’ve learned to camp outside cities and hit them before dawn and spend a pleasant few hours seeing the sights and watching a city wake up.

Lots and lots of people speak English. Everyone (even the French lately!) appreciate an effort in their own language. A little local lingo can open a lot of doors.

The touristy places don’t interest me. Too many people. Too difficult to get around. And not real. Their original character is lost. Small villages, cafes are the places to meet real people, feel the real country and get real information.

Rain is not that bad.... if I have the right gear.

Loooove cycling in the sun and heat!

Taking (good) photos takes a surprisingly long time. And always look behind you! some of my greatest shots are of what's behind me.

There's a lot less serial killers wandering around than we think and most people are surprisingly helpful and friendly when you're on a bike.

Never underestimate the lift being able to brew a hot drink can bring.

Lighter is not always better. Comfort is important. Especially long distance.

Cycling with others can be harder than I thought.

The hardest part of touring is the mental part. If my head isn’t right I’m not enjoying myself. If my head is right I can enjoy anything!
Thank you for info, it shows I've got a lot to think about. No doubt I will be going back to this post time and time again, there is a lot of information here.

Not sure if going solo yet. I have a friend which tours around Scotland and the Simonside hills, he's never been abroad but has camped around for a good part of his 50 years. I am planning on going on trips with him before the big one and if he's up for it too he's welcome.

I've been wondering about how I would keep my phone charged up, dynohub eh, I will have to read up about them

You are right, my thoughts on this trip are in its early days, not sure really why I want to do it. I'm 52 now and I can break into my pension at 55 so it is then I plan on doing this trip. I suppose it is an adventure I can look back on.

Something I am wondering on at the moment, what are the camping laws in the parts of Europe I am planning to visit, can I camp anywhere or is it only campsites. Another thing navigation apps, I've tried Google maps but it does not help much in certain areas, and I've tried kamoot but cannot zoom in enough. When using these apps I try transferring them to Map my Ride to create gpx files for my Garmin but even Map my Ride is giving me problems too?
 
One of the joys of long distance touring is not knowing where you will end up at the end of the day, so many cycle tourists set daily achievments, some I know even book accomadation ahead assuming that all will go to plan. then when things are going wrong, beat themselves up because they are still far from there planned stop. Being a old crusty, I dont put much faith in modern tech, so always carry paper maps of my planned route, however I do use a bar mounted GPS as a quick check I am still on route or if I have strayed of planned route for a beer break it is easy to guide me back on route.
As to camping in EU, ideally a nice quite campsite with showers and toilets is ideal, but stealth or wild camping as some will call it is no problems if you can find a suitable site, work on the basic of camp late leave early, leave no mess and be nice to anyone who finds you.
 
Location
London
Agree totally on not booking ahead. Never did when inter railing or car touring so definitely not going to start when under my own steam.
 
OP
OP
GmanUK65

GmanUK65

Über Member
So I have created the route through Germany (more than likely not sticking to this on trip, it's just to give me an idea. The next problem is Austria. The navigation guides, which ones are accurate. I've tried Komoot, this seems ok but it shows roads that do not exist on Google maps, Ride my Bike, and Garmin Connect. Should I trust Komoot more than the rest or could it be a ploy to use their app
 
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