Hate List

[martint235]

Ok after this morning's commute I'm revising my hate list:

1. RLJers. Yep still holding onto the number one spot comfortably, particularly the ones that ride at about 2mph and therefore get in my way once the lights have turned green.
2. Wheelsuckers. A new entry! If you can't maintain a steady speed of 23mph in an empty bus lane, get the f*** off my wheel. Particular hate goes to the ones who then RLJ and then smugly take the front at 15mph. Please don't do this, it isn't "taking your turn" it's "getting in my way"
3. Black cab drivers. Down from 2. I still think it's time you spent less time learning the knowledge and how to be a smug b******d and more time learning how to actually drive.
4. Squeezers. The ones that come through a pinch point alongside me. I'm still not sure what warrants "too close". I started to think at first that it was if I could touch the roof of the car but then that would mean virtually every car on my commute!!!.

I'm off to calm down now.

 

[Theseus]

2. Wheelsuckers. A new entry! If you can't maintain a steady speed of 23mph in an empty bus lane, get the f*** off my wheel. Particular hate goes to the ones who then RLJ and then smugly take the front at 15mph. Please don't do this, it isn't "taking your turn" it's "getting in my way"

In this case you probably despise me. I have a policy with regard to taking the wheel of other cyclists. If I come up behind someone I will pass in the first instance. I don't mind if they then take my wheel, that is OK. If however they then pass me again I refuse to play a racing game and will sit on thier wheel.

 

[BentMikey]

What's wrong with wheelsuckers? Share some effort, share the road. I don't mind a wheel sucker, if they hit me from behind it's them that will almost certainly go down.

I don't get many people trying to wheelsuck me though, at least not more than once, i.e. until they realise there's very little draft behind me.

 

[martint235]

In this case you probably despise me. I have a policy with regard to taking the wheel of other cyclists. If I come up behind someone I will pass in the first instance. I don't mind if they then take my wheel, that is OK. If however they then pass me again I refuse to play a racing game and will sit on thier wheel.

You should at least try to share the effort or back off slightly. If you're stuck on my wheel I'm using more energy to drag you along and also as you're using less energy, I'll have to use even more to drop you.

 

[martint235]

What's wrong with wheelsuckers? Share some effort, share the road. I don't mind a wheel sucker, if they hit me from behind it's them that will almost certainly go down.

I don't get many people trying to wheelsuck me though, at least not more than once, i.e. until they realise there's very little draft behind me.

Yeah that's just an unfair advantage

 

[Theseus]

You should at least try to share the effort or back off slightly. If you're stuck on my wheel I'm using more energy to drag you along and also as you're using less energy, I'll have to use even more to drop you.

Read my post again ... I am more than happy to take front wheel and let someone sit behind me.

If they then overtake me they have shown that they do not want that position and are fair game for me to use.

Your point about using more energy to drag someone along is a load of bull. It takes no more energy when someone is behind you, if anything I vaguely remember reading that it gave both riders an advantage (although a lot less so for the leader) as the second rider broke the turbulance behind the lead and helps to create a more laminer air flow. That may be bull on my part as well, but it certainly does not increase the drag on the lead rider.

As for dropping me, you may also recall from my post the bit at the beginning where I said ...

If I come up behind someone I will pass in the first instance.

If I caught you in the first place, I can more than likely keep up with you.

 

[martint235]

Your point about using more energy to drag someone along is a load of bull. It takes no more energy when someone is behind you, if anything I vaguely remember reading that it gave both riders an advantage (although a lot less so for the leader) as the second rider broke the turbulance behind the lead and helps to create a more laminer air flow. That may be bull on my part as well, but it certainly does not increase the drag on the lead rider.

According to Tour de France coverage, it takes less energy to cycle in the slipstream of the rider in front. It takes x amount of energy to move 2 cyclists x amount of distance. If the second rider is using less energy then the laws on conservation of energy therefore insists that the lead rider is using more energy so sorry but it's not bull

 

[BentMikey]

According to Tour de France coverage, it takes less energy to cycle in the slipstream of the rider in front. It takes x amount of energy to move 2 cyclists x amount of distance. If the second rider is using less energy then the laws on conservation of energy therefore insists that the lead rider is using more energy so sorry but it's not bull

Touche is right, Martin. It's nothing to do with conservation of energy, but instead is about aerodynamics. Effectively, the second rider is partially filling the hole in the wind behind the first rider. The first rider does benefit, but only very slightly.

 

[martint235]

Touche is right, Martin. It's nothing to do with conservation of energy, but instead is about aerodynamics. Effectively, the second rider is partially filling the hole in the wind behind the first rider. The first rider does benefit, but only very slightly.

In that case I will gracefully accept I am wrong but with one last query, isn't the first rider now required to make "a hole in the wind" big enough for two riders rather than one?

 

[Theseus]

According to Tour de France coverage, it takes less energy to cycle in the slipstream of the rider in front. It takes x amount of energy to move 2 cyclists x amount of distance. If the second rider is using less energy then the laws on conservation of energy therefore insists that the lead rider is using more energy so sorry but it's not bull

Let me Google "Drafting" for you ... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=drafting

ETA: Just seen your last post, so take this as supporting documentation

 

[marinyork]

Let me Google "Drafting" for you ... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=drafting

ETA: Just seen your last post, so take this as supporting documentation

He may not have heard of it. Someone I knew hadn't heard of drafting and thought it was complete cobblers so I got him to go 1ft behind me on a long straight road that usually has a headwind. Martint235's clearly so fast he may well not have tried it .

 

[Spinney]

In that case I will gracefully accept I am wrong but with one last query, isn't the first rider now required to make "a hole in the wind" big enough for two riders rather than one?

No - because the size of the 'hole' is the frontal area of the cyclist, so the 2nd cyclist is just following through a 'tunnel' in the air that the first cyclist has opened up (and would have had to open up whether or not they were being followed).

 

[martint235]

Thanks for all the advice. I have heard of drafting and have fallen foul of it before where people have ganged up on me to get past!

I fully accept my premise was wrong (still don't like people hanging on my wheel though ) however it still seems to smack of using less energy to transport a given mass a given distance which makes me uncomfortable!!!

 

[Theseus]

Just remember that until it was understood, it was scientifically impossible for a bee to fly.

 

[biking_fox]

however it still seems to smack of using less energy to transport a given mass a given distance

No. The mass and distance energy bit has remained unchanged. What has altered is the energy required to overcome air friction. No change in shape behind you can alter the energy you require to overcome the air resistance in front of you*. However if you change the shape you present to the wind (by being behind someone else) you will change the energy you require to overcome air resistance - without effecting their shape.


* and this is where the lead cyclist does pick up a tiny gain - the rider behind does influence the drag effect of the turbulence you leave in your wake. they can't make the drag greater, but they can and do, apparently, reduce it a little bit.



that said - I dislike having someone who's abilities I don't know sit close to my rear wheel. Fortunetly traffic etc doesn't allow this much on my routes through Manchester.