Help with frame ID?

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Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
Wondering if someone might be able to help me with an old frame ID. Photos of key parts first, then I'll comment on a few details...

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Alan O

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
It has a Nervex bottom bracket shell, and I suspect the lugs might be Nervex too as their pattern looks similar. I can't make out the number stamped on the bottom bracket (my close-up eyesight is poor) but it might be clearer when I've stripped the paint.

The rear dropouts have "...YCLO" on the left and "BENEL..." on the right, which is presumably Cyclo Benelux. The right one also has AD283 stamped on it.

The seat stays do not wrap over, but they're also not flattened at the seat cluster - they just taper quite narrowly.

The chain stays are only narrowly tapering (if at all) as they emerge from the bottom bracket shell, then taper more sharply just past the chain stay bridge.

The fork dropouts are unusually long and flare outwards slightly at the end.

The rear brake bridge can't really be seen in the photo, but it's straight and not curved.

The rivet holes for the head badge are 45mm apart (centre to centre).

The frame measures 56cm from centre of bottom bracket to top of seat tube. Including fork plus bottom bracket and lamp bracket (not shown, on the fork), it weighs approximately 3.1 kg.

I'm guessing 50s to early 60s, and that it would have originally been built as a 5-speed (there's no sign that there's ever been a front derailleur). I also think it's probably been quite a nice bike originally.

The seller told me someone had suggested maybe a Freddie Grubb, and I've found some images of frames with the same kind of head tube lugs (but with other things that didn't match). He also suspected it might be an early Viking (though he didn't tell me why he thought that).

Grateful for any thoughts, thanks in advance.

Alan
 
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SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
I've got no idea myself, but if other vintage steel owners could kindly measure their headbadge rivet centres, it would at least rule out those makes where the spacing or number of rivets doesn't match. That would leave the possibles, which may be further thinned out when considering the lug pattern.
 

biggs682

Touch it up and ride it
Location
Northamptonshire
Nice lugwork for sure , the number stamping on the bottom bracket will be a Nervex pattern or part number.
The rear drop out AD283 Will be the frame number .
I love those fork ends same as my F R Russell which is 50's or 60's era .
Dawes & Carlton plus others stamp the rear drop out .
Badge spacing is worth chasing
 
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Alan O

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
One other thing, which is almost certainly not of any help - the blue is clearly a respray, as there's white paint beneath it on the inside of the fork ends.
 
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Alan O

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
Actually, something that has struck me is that the front cable stop on the top tube is double, so there would have been two cables directed rearwards. The only thing I can think of is a top-routed front derailleur cable, perhaps over a pulley, and that it did have a double chainset after all.

I've discovered that Viking used a derailleur pulley system on some bikes, used Nervex Pro lugs, Cyclo Benelux derailleurs and dropouts, and had some serial numbers of the appropriate format. I just can't find a model that matches mine.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/frame-numbering.html
http://classicvikingcycles.com/

Oh, and the seat post inner diameter is 27.2mm, which matches Reynolds 531 butted.
 
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Alan O

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
Only a small bit of progress...

I've discovered that a lot of Cyclo Benelux dropouts have since had their unique hanger mounts cut off so more standard derailleurs could be used. As mine doesn't have a hanger, that might have been done with mine.

And closer inspection of the frame shows there was a braze-on shifter boss on the downtube (and it looks like there was only one) which has been removed.

Cyclo Benelux shifter bosses were apparently non-standard too, so that supports the suggestion that my frame was modified to take more standard derailleurs - I'm guessing at the time the respray was done, as the removal of the old boss would have ruined the paint.

There's also a Viking head badge that might match - the last one at http://classicvikingcycles.com/head-badges/. It says "1-3/4″ (44mm)", which is 1mm less than I measure mine, but if it was measured in inches and converted it might match. It says that was used 1960 onwards, and Viking were making models with Cyclo Benelux then.
 
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