HGV/Cyclist visibility

[glenn forger]

Not much you can do if the lorry drivers drunk, in an unsafe vehicle or chatting on a mobile. That's the danger with these silly stickers and mentions of "blind spots", why are proven deathly vehicles that the operator can't see out of properly allowed to travel on crowded urban roads thronging with cyclists?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

There's a regular sight that passes through Aviemore station as about 30 Tesco containers are pulled between Inverness and Livingston, and Livingston to Daventry. Tesco reckon this can save around 72,000 lorry journeys each year.

Other supermarkets need to follow this example and maybe then we'll have some momentum in getting the artics off city streets.

GC

 

[Dan B]

reckon this can save around 72,000 lorry journeys each year.

Every little helps ;-)

 

[CopperBrompton]

A 44T lorry that weighs 15T has a capacity of 44-15 = 29 tonnes

You're quite correct. A standard Transit carries 1.2 tonnes, so one artic = 24 Transits. There are larger variants with greater capacities, and obviously smaller vans with lower capacities, right down to Glenn's proposed cargo bikes.

A quick Google suggests a typical cargo bike can carry up to 60Kg, so one artic = 484 cargo bikes. I'll leave Glenn to do the maths on the labour costs of transferring the cargo from the truck (or train wagon or barge as he prefers) to the cargo bikes and the costs of the 484 cyclists to ride them from whatever out-of-town terminus he favours to their final destination.

 

[ufkacbln]

An articulated lorry can carry 44 tonnes. A standard Transit can carry 1.2 tonnes. Show me the stats showing that 37 white van men are safer than one HGV and we'll talk.

But is that appropriate.

A large articulated lorry may be the most efficient way for distributing from a warehouse.

However if that artic then only delivers 3 or four hundredweight of that load to a store in a town, is that really realistic when a small van could have performed the same task, without the problems caused by the use of HGVs in a town environment.

Perhaps what we really need is the above "hub" where HGVs can deliver and then more appropriate transport... van, bike, trike or car can collect

AFter all, there is no additional expense, most companes have vans for local delivery and transport.

In fcat it would be a saving as the cost of collecting from a part load of a couple of hunderdweight from a hub would be far cheaper than the HGV driving into that local shop.

 

[Profpointy]

another thought - wasn't it claimed that the risk to cyclists was midsize trucks such as tipper lorries rather than big artics? Are we barking up the wrong tree?

genuine question by the way.

That said.My guess, and it is a guess, is full size artics are mostly delivering a whole load to one site rather than multi-dropping.

 

[glenn forger]

You're quite correct. A standard Transit carries 1.2 tonnes, so one artic = 24 Transits. There are larger variants with greater capacities, and obviously smaller vans with lower capacities, right down to Glenn's proposed cargo bikes.

A quick Google suggests a typical cargo bike can carry up to 60Kg, so one artic = 484 cargo bikes. I'll leave Glenn to do the maths on the labour costs of transferring the cargo from the truck (or train wagon or barge as he prefers) to the cargo bikes and the costs of the 484 cyclists to ride them from whatever out-of-town terminus he favours to their final destination.

For the fifth time, the alternative to HGVs is not limited to transits

or

cargo bikes

Cargo bikes can carry goods weighting up to 100 kg


The EU-funded project CycleLogistics aims to reduce energy used in urban freight transport by replacing unnecessary motorised vehicles with cargo bikes for intra-urban delivery and good transport in Europe. Investigations showed that one out of two trips in urban areas is shorter than 5 km and could easily be done by bike. Nearly 100 % of goods transport in cities is carried out by motorised vehicles, even when the fraight is light goods. 25 % of them could be replaced with cycling-related solutions.

http://www.bikecityguide.org/blog/2014/02/cargo-bikes/

 

[CopperBrompton]

Feel free to do the sums on any vehicle or vehicles of your choice and let us know the cost ...

 

[glenn forger]

ok

In Cambridge, UK, the average speed of a courier bike is 14 km/hr, while the average car speed in European cities is only 18 km/hr.

In France, La Petite Reine has 60 cargo bikes across the country, moving over a million packages annually. France’s national rail company has invested in a cargo bike company called The Urban Cab for cost-effective delivery.

Imagine Canada’s cities with urban logistics centres outside the city centre, where trucks discharge their loads for delivery by bike. In Cambridge, UK, the bike company Outspoken Delivery was able to deliver 17,000 magazines to 430 locations in two days, for a cost of $1,000. No other service provider could compete. Their 8-Freight bikes can carry up to 60 kg; their Cycle Maximus trikes can carry up to 250 kg.

Cargo bikes are already in British Columbia. In Duncan, the Cowichan Recyclists is a year-round recycling pick-up company that operates entirely by bike, using Tony’s Trailers, made locally by 1955 Tour de France cyclist Tony Hoar in Cobble Hill. In Victoria, GeaZone Eco-Couriers deliver up to 600 pounds of cargo, using 48 cubic foot container trailers. And in Vancouver, members of the five-person Shift Urban Cargo Delivery Co-op use their electric cargo trikes to deliver everything from office supplies to produce, clothing, electronic recycling, catering, small furniture, coffee, and (through Bites on Bikes) delicious gourmet sandwiches, salads, and sweets.

http://www.wholife.com/issues/19_1/04_article.html

 

[CopperBrompton]

However if that artic then only delivers 3 or four hundredweight of that load to a store in a town, is that really realistic when a small van could have performed the same task, without the problems caused by the use of HGVs in a town environment.

But it may deliver that 3-4 hundredweight to several shops on that street, and several on the next, and ...

Goods are typically delivered on pallets, so either you need vehicles that can carry at least one pallet (which rules out any of the very small ones) or you need to account for the cost of breaking down the pallets into smaller units, which is time-consuming. I'm not against it in principle, but I'm unconvinced that all the smaller vehicles needed would be safer than one big one, and I think the costs would add up to a substantial amount - which would, of course, be passed on to customers.

 

[CopperBrompton]

ok

In Cambridge ...

All very interesting.

The question you haven't yet answered is this:

What would be the logistics of of transferring goods from the large vehicles to the small ones, and what would be the total cost of doing that transfer per 26 tonnes?

 

[glenn forger]

39% of goods vehicles weighing over 25 tonnes are empty

https://cycleoffutility.wordpress.com/2011/07/

The real problem is that there are any HGVs in London in the first place, and that it is more efficient to run a lorry into London than deposit goods in a peripheral distribution The subsidies for the freight industry ensure alternatives are ignored. The problem is that haulage companies don’t bear the costs of the injuries and fatalities.

 

[CopperBrompton]

All very interesting.

The question you haven't yet answered is this:

What would be the logistics of of transferring goods from the large vehicles to the small ones, and what would be the total cost of doing that transfer per 26 tonnes?

 

[Profpointy]

39% of goods vehicles weighing over 25 tonnes are empty

https://cycleoffutility.wordpress.com/2011/07/

The real problem is that there are any HGVs in London in the first place, and that it is more efficient to run a lorry into London than deposit goods in a peripheral distribution The subsidies for the freight industry ensure alternatives are ignored. The problem is that haulage companies don’t bear the costs of the injuries and fatalities.

Yebbut there still needs to be an alternative - by which I mean one that's been thought out properly, even though there may be something in your "externalities" point.

And as someone above has pointed out, in London more than most places, stuff's being brought to London mostly, rather than somewhere where they make stuff making the return leg a potential for a return load.

 

[MontyVeda]

Feel free to do the sums on any vehicle or vehicles of your choice and let us know the cost ...

This is one of the main problems of living in a capitalist society... when a solution to a problem won't earn enough profit for the operators of the service... and that's seen as a good reason for a proposed solution to be dismissed. Imagine money was no object... would you warm to the idea?