HGVs in towns and cities

[Origamist]

No, but they have killed a few peds by running them over while they were waiting at a bus stop.

It's kinda ironic as well because dondare goes on about the lenght and width of hgv's. Yet those ''bendi'' buses are the same width and the maximum lenght allowed on the public road without an escort.

I wonder how PSV and HGV driver training differs (if at all) with regard to vulnerable road users/hazard perception? I'd like to know.

I suspect your average bus driver is more aware of cyclists, simply because he comes into contact with them far more regularly and has better visibility from his driving position.

 

[Origamist]

How fast did the driver go through that junction?

Slow as he was turning around a tight left.

This was the problem as he was braking after the overtake and so was I when I realized what he was doing, this meant he was alongside and forced me to mount the pavement. There was a sizeable gap on the inside, but if I'd tried to outrun him I would be the subject of a cyclechat KSI/HGV thread.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

KSI, HGV, BBC ... I think the problem is all the TLAs.

 

[col]

That's easier said than done sometimes. Do you cycle much in very dense traffic, with dozens and dozens of junctions where large numbers of HGVs operate? Sometimes staying out of HGVs blind spots is not that simple - particularly when you get overtaken on the approach to a junction and can be obscured by other vehicles.

A hgv overtaking doesnt normally keep you in a blindspot for long and unless it was a close overtake doesnt really endager you anymore than any other overtake.If there are a lot of large vehicles around and your getting hemmed in why not just stop and wait for them to go instead of staying with them?

 

[Origamist]

A hgv overtaking doesnt normally keep you in a blindspot for long

It can and does. There is a blind spot directly behind the trailer. What you are also forgetting is that in dense traffic a HGV is not going to sail miles ahead - there is a concertina effect in the rush-hour (the average motorised traffic speed is less than mine). What's more, it is easy for other traffic to obscure a rider as sightlines in heavy traffic are compromised.

and unless it was a close overtake doesnt really endager you anymore than any other overtake.

Overtaking dynamics are different though - the cab can pass you with meters to spare, but not necessarily the 45ft trailer. On quite a few occasions I have had to brake hard for HGVs otherwise I would have been swiped. Also overtakes can be followed by left hooks - if it's a car I've got a chance, if it's a HGV I've got big problems.

If there are a lot of large vehicles around and your getting hemmed in why not just stop and wait for them to go instead of staying with them?

I probably pass and get passed by 40 or so buses on every commute, not to mention a dozen or so HGVs and plenty of WVMs. If I were to stop and then rejoin the flow it would not make any difference, as the make-up of motorised traffic is similar along the roads I ride.

Col, from your response I'm guessing you do not ride in heavy traffic regularly - is this correct?

 

[BentMikey]

I hope I got some very good and potentially frightening footage today. Four tipper trucks in row, I waited and let them past, and stayed in primary behind them later, not up the death alley cycle lane.

 

[dondare]

No, but they have killed a few peds by running them over while they were waiting at a bus stop.

It's kinda ironic as well because dondare goes on about the lenght and width of hgv's. Yet those ''bendi'' buses are the same width and the maximum lenght allowed on the public road without an escort.

Don't get me started about bendy buses....

 

[Andy 71]

Hello All,


Speaking as a HGV driver who has done some extremely big loads in my time I think this is down to education of all road users ,road safety especially cycles should be taught at a young age and should be a part of a child's school education as it used to be, car drivers and anyone driving on a car licence (vans/7.5t trucks) Should have to take a much harder test than it is, as proved day in day out on our roads any idiot is allowed to use one ! It's no good HGV drivers having to take advanced tests if no one else needs to be educated to such a standard. That's my view anyway.


The video though very good threw up a few points which seemed a bit stupid to me ,As most Artics I have driven will carry 29 tonnes and most 7.5 tonne trucks only carry 2.9 tonnes (ish) would you rather have 10 x 7.5t trucks or one artic on our roads. From an environmental point of view a 7.5 tonne truck will do 16ish mpg an artic 10 ish mpg as you can see an awful extra amount of pollution noise and traffic if smaller trucks were used plus of coarse the fact that most 7.5t trucks are still driven by people with only a car licence ( free off the back of a cornflakes box).
The side underun bar issue again is a bit stupid as any lower and the thing would keep getting ripped off, they are bad enough as they are, The trucks show in the video are all exempt from underun bars because the nature of work they do means this would be a constant problem so it was a bit cheeky to use them as an example.


And last How many idiots do you see on bikes who have no regard for there own safety never mind anyone else, what chance has anyone got against these people (no lights/brakes wearing black at night /cycling the wrong way down one way streets/running red lights/jumping off pavements in front of you the list is endless! Maybe cyclists should be forced to take a test of the same advance standard as a HGV driver £2000 ? have number plates ,tax discs ?


I would never wish to see this of coarse but why ban the lorries because of stupid cyclists, I'm not for a second saying HGV drivers cannot make a bad manoeuvre /judgements but I would think It was more likely in general the bad cyclists fault !

I think I have to agree with Badger's view. One truck is more ecological than loads of vans, just as one bus can take 100 people who might otherwise be occupying cars.

I think that saying the presence of HGVs is the problem, is a much of a red herring as saying if there were no cyclists, you wouldn't have any HGV/bike collisions.

Many such collisions are caused by people not understanding the what the HGV can or cannot see and undertaking on the inside. Equally, surely it MUST be possible to come up with some sort of technology to make HGVs aware of bikes/peds in their blind spots.

Yes, it would be great if the roads were free of powered vehicles and I could have free reign. Every type of road user might take that view as well. The reality is that we have to share. There is no excuse for dangerous or irresponsible behaviour on the part of any road user, and cyclists do get a hard time sometimes, but it is literally, a two way street - we can't have it both ways. If you don't give someone a chance to be aware of your presence, how can you expect them to take evasive action?

 

[dondare]

So far, bendy buses have not killed a cyclist in London, but the Mayor is determined to get rid of them.

I hope he does. Those things are a real menace.

 

[Andy 71]

It would be a lot safer if you kept away from large vehicles at junctions,whats so difficult about that,is it hard to hang back or something?

Hear, hear Col. Impatience is actually the biggest killer on our roads.

 

[dondare]

I think I have to agree with Badger's view. One truck is more ecological than loads of vans, just as one bus can take 100 people who might otherwise be occupying cars.

I think that saying the presence of HGVs is the problem, is a much of a red herring as saying if there were no cyclists, you wouldn't have any HGV/bike collisions.

Many such collisions are caused by people not understanding the what the HGV can or cannot see and undertaking on the inside. Equally, surely it MUST be possible to come up with some sort of technology to make HGVs aware of bikes/peds in their blind spots.

Taking the left door off would be a simple way of removing the blind spot.

Yes, it would be great if the roads were free of powered vehicles and I could have free reign. Every type of road user might take that view as well. The reality is that we have to share. There is no excuse for dangerous or irresponsible behaviour on the part of any road user, and cyclists do get a hard time sometimes, but it is literally, a two way street - we can't have it both ways. If you don't give someone a chance to be aware of your presence, how can you expect them to take evasive action?

No it isn't. If the cyclist makes a mistake, the cyclist gets killed. If the driver makes a mistake, the cyclist gets killed.

 

[col]

It can and does. There is a blind spot directly behind the trailer. What you are also forgetting is that in dense traffic a HGV is not going to sail miles ahead - there is a concertina effect in the rush-hour (the average motorised traffic speed is less than mine). What's more, it is easy for other traffic to obscure a rider as sightlines in heavy traffic are compromised.



Overtaking dynamics are different though - the cab can pass you with meters to spare, but not necessarily the 45ft trailer. On quite a few occasions I have had to brake hard for HGVs otherwise I would have been swiped. Also overtakes can be followed by left hooks - if it's a car I've got a chance, if it's a HGV I've got big problems.



I probably pass and get passed by 40 or so buses on every commute, not to mention a dozen or so HGVs and plenty of WVMs. If I were to stop and then rejoin the flow it would not make any difference, as the make-up of motorised traffic is similar along the roads I ride.

Col, from your response I'm guessing you do not ride in heavy traffic regularly - is this correct?

Not now no,i avoid it as much as possible,iv done my fair share of riding on very busy roads over the last 35 years,and now take other ways where possible.

 

[col]

Taking the left door off would be a simple way of removing the blind spot.



No it isn't. If the cyclist makes a mistake, the cyclist gets killed. If the driver makes a mistake, the cyclist gets killed.

More reason to avoid them isnt it?

 

[dondare]

You can't avoid something that takes up the whole road and can move faster than you do.

 

[col]

You can't avoid something that takes up the whole road and can move faster than you do.

Maybe your right,i often find myself out of control going faster than i can normally and being drawn to them