HGVs in towns and cities

[BentMikey]

LOL, that's quite funny!! Who remembers AndyfromOtley calling me a car apologist? Now Lee is calling me a cyclist apologist. Ahahahaha!

You can't say you know most HGV/cyclist fatalities in London are due to the cocky cyclist. Or rather you can, but you won't be very credible unless you also post some proof, which you've failed to do. Just because you're probably a very good driver and often manage to correct for other road users' mistakes, including cyclists, doesn't preclude other HGV drivers from making mistakes and killing cyclists.

In reality, the evidence shows that it's more likely to be the HGV driver to blame, but also that cyclists are to blame some of the time.

 

[rootes]

also trucks are very comfortable and you are quite isolated from the road (suspended cabs, air seats, radio etc etc..) my friend backed into a land rover whilst in a 7.5tonne bread van in Cardiff and didn't even feel the bump and that is only a little truck... his fault for being a div, but he only found out about it when landy driver ran after him down the road..

 

[Origamist]

trucks have nice big mirrors BUT lots of blind spots and you have to take corner differently to cars to account for length and width... moving over right before turning left to clear a corner seems to confuse road users behind..

perhaps they shoudl offer out drives in wagons so people can see what they are like to drive (see there was something in the metro on a similar vein)

There have been campaings with stationary HGVs - highlighting the lack of visibility from the cab. The Met have also been stopping and advising cyclists about HGVs.

As I have previously posted, I think the nomenclature used, i.e. "blind spot(s)" is misleading as we're actually talking about large, multiple and shifting swathes of space that a HGV driver cannot see when driving.

 

[rootes]

As I have previously posted, I think the nomenclature used, i.e. "blind spot(s)" is misleading as we're actually talking about large, multiple and shifting swathes of space that a HGV driver cannot see when driving.

too true and even infront down below is quiet hard to see (unless you have a DAF with the low down windows lol)

 

[dondare]

?? Have you ever drove a truck dondare?? You should go over to trucknet and post your thoughts over there, they have a few intresting threads regarding trucks and cyclists. The link is in my first post on this thread I do believe.

I've looked at those sites and I've seen the posts. I know that non-cyclists think that cyclists ought to pass a test, be licenced, pay road tax, have insurance, not use the roads at all except if there's a cycle-lane and so on; and I know that motorists (including truckers) will forgive themselves and eachother for what they consider to be minor breaches of the law and occasional lapses in concentration, and obviously they're not going to accept that they should be prevented from using roads that are usuitable for such vehicles.

 

[BentMikey]

The evidence? Quite apart from so many cases in London where the HGV driver was shown not to be paying attention/left hooking/etc, there is that damning RAC study where cyclists are to blame for only 17% of collisions involving a motor vehicle. I think we all accept that on average HGV drivers are much better than car drivers, so how much better will they have to be than the rest to take that ratio to more than half for the collisions just involving HGVs and cyclists?

 

[rootes]

suppose cars and hgv are like Chihuahua and Pitbulls..

if the dogs were badly behaved and went mad and attacked you, you would take your chances with the chihuahua!

suppose it comes down to the damage they can do..

 

[dondare]

But they are out doing a job, delivering stuff that you and the ~60 million or so people need in this country to survive.

Just out of intrest going back to your post about using rail freight to deliver goods, how would you do this?

There used to be more railway lines going to more places before Beeching. There could be again. (All it would take is for the right govt. adviser to have shares in Railtrack.) Long-distance haulage is then carried out by the railways and short-distance distribution by smaller vehicles, about the size of a Routemaster bus and with the same design of cab that actually allows the driver to see where he's going.
Biggest thing I ever drove was a Luton. I've sat in the cab of a bigger truck and seen for myself what I already knew, that the driver can't see what's directly in front, at the sides or behind. That's why I'm saying that they can't be used safely in crowded, narrow streets with frequent right-angle turns as you find in towns.

 

[dondare]

As for the law what about Highway code no 144 this is the RTA and therefore is the law and applies to cyclists as well.

"
144
You MUST NOT

drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users"

Right. It's a law that is supposed to protect other road users from you, not one that requires other road users to protect themselves. How much danger is a cyclist to a lorry driver? How much danger is a lorry driver to a cyclist? So who has to be careful?

 

[dondare]

Isn't the size of a routemaster bus the same as a standard class II vehicle though.

Mirrors allow a driver to see everything apart from the nearside blind spot, obviously they cannot see directly behind them.

Look at the cab, the driver has windows on three sides and so a much wider field of view.
Buses do not kill as many cyclists as HGVs, is it driver training or something else? Whatever it is, that is what needs to be changed. It obviously isn't the cyclist.

 

[dondare]

Forget it. You know what a routemaster looks like.

 

[dondare]

Are you sure? because the feeling I'm getting especially from people like dondare is most cyclists HAVE NOT got a clue on how to ride a bike within the vicinity of a truck. You only have to look at the post of the other driver who had 3 cyclists down his nearside when waiting at a red light. Yeah these are all converted? you reckon, the people that died, they knew what they was doing right? The thing is as well, it's not about awareness or even ability surely it is just common sense. But apparently not.

That is one of the points that I'm making. How can they know? Anyone is entitled by law to ride a bike on the road without having to pass a test to demonstrate competence. Why should someone understand the dynamics of a truck, appreciate that it needs to swing right to turn left, realise that the driver can't see them when they're along side? It's precisely because cyclists do not have truck-awareness training that truckers have to take care. Legally and morally the responsibility lies with you.

 

[dondare]

I do know how to behave on the road, having been cycling for 40 years and also driving for about 16 years, it's the others worried about.
Sometimes I worry for myself as well, even experienced cyclists can't avoid some mistakes. It would help a lot if speed limits were obeyed, even on roads without cameras.

 

[gavintc]

Legally and morally the responsility lies with both parties. If some people lack the grey cells to keep out from under the wheels of trucks, this does not automatically make it the responsibility of the truck driver. In my experience, truck drivers are reasonable drivers, certainly better in traffic than the average 'bloke on a bike'. To propose that the problem is simply a truck one, is missing the point.

 

[BentMikey]

Lee, why would you make such negative assumptions about dondare's riding? Do you have any idea how he rides and have you observed him? You certainly haven't been around here and previous places long enough to make a useful judgement on his posting.