Hi-Fi question

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Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Watt-O said:
IMHO PT & Exposure much warmer and less clinical than a Linn/Naim setup!

I also a TD150 once before the then girlfriend threw it down the stairs after a particularly nasty argument. Great turntable for the money, but unable to withstand that kind of treatment!


I liked exposure kit too.
Shame you can't use your kit. I've only recently got the Thorens and vinyl out again. The Thorens needs an overhaul and the suspension setting up again, I'll get around to it soon.

The TD150 was a good beast, better built than the 160 and more customisable too. Put a s/h Linn Basik arm on on it and IIRC a Linn arm-board (which fitted perfectly (strokes chin and wondered why...) and it sounded ace! Linn Springs could also be used. Had a lot of fun experimenting with chassis and sub-chassis damping too with Thorens turntables. They were tough and adaptable, but I agree not stairs proof :biggrin:
 

Mr Pig

New Member
BearPear said:
Mr BP has a Sondek but with Naim.. He keeps suggesting that we should up-grade some part or other.

That's Naim for you! I used Naim for nearly twenty years, it's got a lot going for it, but the problem with it is that it never sounds 'right'. There always seems to be something lacking, something niggling, and the Naim answer is always to upgrade. I feel rather foolish for falling for it for so long!

You go on the Naim forum, it's all anyone ever talks about. Mr BP will never be happy with his system whilst he's using Naim amps. The CD players are OK, just catastrophically expensive for what they actually do.

I liked exposure kit too.

With the benefit of hindsight I wish I'd bought Exposure instead of Naim. I think it provided an ideal balance of the tunefulness of Linn amps and the grip and insight of Naim.

The TD150 was a good beast, put a s/h Linn Basik arm on on it and it sounded ace!

In my opinion decks like the Thorns and Ariston RD11 are every bit as good as an early LP12 and maybe better. Brilliant record players. I strongly disagree about the arm though. I've owned all of Linn's arms except the Ekos and I think the Basik and Basik+ arms are rubbish! They were passable in their day but the RB300 cast a pretty big and fatal shadow on them when it arrived. So much so that Linn had to try to build a budget Ittok to compete, the Akito, and spread the scurrilous rumour that the Rega arms did not work on the LP12.

Faced with a masterpiece like the RB300 though it was farting against thunder. Linn turned their noises up at it whilst every other turntable manufacturer fell over themselves to nail this pocket-money super-arm to their decks. Incidentally, most of the 'incompatibility' issues are down to the arm cable, which is harder to dress properly with a suspended deck.

I used to run it through DNM amplifiers..

I've only heard DNM amps once and they were unbelievably good! Driving mental French Rehdeko speakers they produced some of the most life-like music I've ever heard.

Ooooh a PT/Linn debate

I think the PT was let down by it just not being built well enough. If you looked under a Pink it had a sub-chassis that looked like a five-year-old had cut it out with blunt wood saw with the springs though it held in place by cir-clips shoved through the coils. The dust cover, whilst brave and distinctive, also had a propensity for literally coming apart at the seams! Not good on a top-dollar deck. Linn at least built the LP12 very well so dealers were much more confident about selling it.

I even had a Hadcock unipivot, that was a weird thing, good but finicky.

I actually had one of those but never used it! I sold it to some guy in Germany still in the box. Idiot, I wish I'd tried it.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Chromatic, another thing maybe worth considering regarding the Origin Live mods is that are likely to have a big effect on the resale value of your LP12. Modified LP12s are not very popular with buyers. I'm not saying don't go there but take your time, do your homework. Let's chew this out for a while yet.
 

Mr Pig

New Member
I remembered the name of the company who sell LP12 motors LINK

It was years ago I looked at them, I can't remember what they cost but it a lot less than Linn charge. You would need to swap the pulley over though.
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Mr Pig, agree about the Basik, but S/H (Croydon Hi-Fi exchange) it was cheap at a time when RB250's and 300's were rare s/h. But it worked just fine on the old 150 with a NAD amp and some little missions (700LE's maybe). Mid to late 80s I guess.
 

Mr Pig

New Member
Hey Chromatic!!

Sorry I'm an idiot! When you said your motor had died I thought it was unusual, as they rarely fail, but I just accepted it. I know a guy who's one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever met about all things turntable related so I gave him a call tonight to get his thoughts on the Origin Live mods etc. As soon as I told him him about your motor failing he said "It won't be the motor, it'll be the board!".

Arggg, of course! The Valhalla board has a finite life and eventually they go POP! Literally. If you look under the deck you should see a burnt patch on the board!

However, opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. A few years ago there appeared on the market an after-market direct replacement for the Valhalla called the Hercules. This was more or less a Valhalla clone, except that it ran at 45 rpm too!

The Hercules is now in MkII guise and is a sonic improvement over the Valhalla. Fitting is a simple DIY job as it is a direct replacement for the Valhalla board, ten minutes tops. Take the wires off, clip the new board in, reconnect the wires.

The Hercules switch is identical to the Lingo switch giving 33 and 45 at the touch of a button. If you're interested I'll put you in touch with the seller, maybe get you a slight discount too ;0)
 

Mr Pig

New Member
Fab Foodie said:
Mr Pig, agree about the Basik, but S/H it was cheap.

What really demonstrated to me what it was like was making a deck for my son. I'd bought him an Ariston RD11s with a Rega RB250 and it sounded great. After a while I decided to build him an LP12, mainly because I had a lot of the parts lying around the house, and I bought a Basic Plus to put on it.

Sounded terrible, much worse than the Ariston! I couldn't figure it out, messed with the setup etc but could not get it sounding good. Eventually I bought a Rega armboard for the deck and stuck an RB300 on it. Bingo!

This led to a long period of experimentation that resulted in me selling my Ittok and using a modified RB300 on my own LP12.

Interestingly used Rega arms are now plentiful but still not that cheap. With so many around they should cost buttons but everyone knows how good they are. The cheapest way to buy them is to buy a deck with one on and split them.
 
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Chromatic

Chromatic

Legendary Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Mr Pig said:
Hey Chromatic!!

Sorry I'm an idiot! When you said your motor had died I thought it was unusual, as they rarely fail, but I just accepted it. I know a guy who's one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever met about all things turntable related so I gave him a call tonight to get his thoughts on the Origin Live mods etc. As soon as I told him him about your motor failing he said "It won't be the motor, it'll be the board!".

Arggg, of course! The Valhalla board has a finite life and eventually they go POP! Literally. If you look under the deck you should see a burnt patch on the board!

However, opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. A few years ago there appeared on the market an after-market direct replacement for the Valhalla called the Hercules. This was more or less a Valhalla clone, except that it ran at 45 rpm too!

The Hercules is now in MkII guise and is a sonic improvement over the Valhalla. Fitting is a simple DIY job as it is a direct replacement for the Valhalla board, ten minutes tops. Take the wires off, clip the new board in, reconnect the wires.

The Hercules switch is identical to the Lingo switch giving 33 and 45 at the touch of a button. If you're interested I'll put you in touch with the seller, maybe get you a slight discount too ;0)

Thanks for this, I hadn't considered the motor being OK and the board failing ;). I will have a look over the weekend and let you know what I find.
 

Mr Pig

New Member
Chromatic said:
I will have a look over the weekend and let you know what I find.

Remember that the Valhalla carries 230V at all times! The switch is a control switch, not a power switch, so the board is always live. Unplug it and leave it for a few minutes before you poke about.

You should think about an outboard supply though, if you can live without 45rpm. You might find one for similar money to the Hercules. Good ones include the Norton, Avondale TAPS and Naim Armageddon. Another advantage of an outboard supply is that you no longer have 230V inside the deck so can safely leave the base board off even if you have inquisitive small children.

Get back to me whatever you decide to do and I'll try and help.
 

redcogs

Guru
Location
Moray Firth
i have recently purchased a trampolin (mk1) for our LP12.

Its behind the settee at the moment because i'm too daunted by the inevitable resetting of the springs that will have to be undergone so that the perfect 'Linn bounce' can be restored.

There is always some sodding area of dissatisfaction with hifi.

Juslike life really.
 

Mr Pig

New Member
redcogs said:
i have recently purchased a trampolin (mk1) for our LP12.

You should be able to fit that without disturbing much of anything. I'd try it keeping the deck upright and just removing the outer platter and arm counterweight. If you slide the front of the deck over the edge of a table you can take out the base board's three front screws then turn it around and do the back. Lift the deck off the base board, sit it on the tramp and put the screws back in. I don't like flipping the things on their side and try to avoid it. Most things can be done with the deck level.

Why do you need it? From what Understand they are only of benefit if the deck is sitting on a really heavy dead weight like a sideboard. In any other situation they make the deck sound worse!
 

redcogs

Guru
Location
Moray Firth
Mr Pig said:
You should be able to fit that without disturbing much of anything. I'd try it keeping the deck upright and just removing the outer platter and arm counterweight. If you slide the front of the deck over the edge of a table you can take out the base board's three front screws then turn it around and do the back. Lift the deck off the base board, sit it on the tramp and put the screws back in. I don't like flipping the things on their side and try to avoid it. Most things can be done with the deck level.

Why do you need it? From what Understand they are only of benefit if the deck is sitting on a really heavy dead weight like a sideboard. In any other situation they make the deck sound worse!

The Linn's in an alcove next to the (name drop//on) AudioNote AN Es, ;)which vibrate the air etc a fair bit. Its a home constructed wood shelf that the LP is on, sort of jammed in to prevent vibrating resonance etc.

i'll take your advice on trying a level installation, still daunted though.

If it sounds worse, i suppose i'll tek it off. :smile:

Its a shame you're not up here Mr Pig!
 
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Chromatic

Chromatic

Legendary Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Well Mr Pig, I had a look at the weekend. I thought, after reading your post, that that would be the problem, however, looking at the board I could see no burnt out components or joints, it all looked OK, a little bit of dust here and there but no burnt patches either side. I suppose it is possible that a component may have failed without showing any outward signs of having done so, but diagnosing that is beyond me. Actually the same goes for me saying originally that the motor had failed, that was just me jumping to conclusions. I will have a further think about where to go from here but your Hercules suggestion would suit me OK, I'm not a serious enough listener to worry about outboard supplies etc. I did a quick google at lunchtime and found this http://www.stamfordaudio.co.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&p=7048&id=stamaudio

This would seem to cover both bases for me. Is that the seller you were referring to?

Ta

Chromatic
 

Mr Pig

New Member
redcogs said:
I'll take your advice on trying a level installation, still daunted though

Just keep telling yourself that it's just a record player.

If you bought an old Thorns or Ariston RD11 for a hundred quid you'd quite happily prod at it and take it to bits. Open up an LP12 next to these decks though and you'll see that they're just the same inside. There's nothing magical about an LP12, it's just a record player. the only thing that's likely to make you mess it up is being nervous about messing it up! Assuming you're good with your hands and take your time why would you do any damage? It's just common sense, it's just bits of metal, wood and a few screws.

Of course you've got Robert Ritchie if you're really not sure, one of the best Hi-Fi dealers in the country. Worth bearing in mind though that more LP12s get damaged in transit than by all other means put together! ;0)

I suppose you know that an alcove is widely regarded as being the worst place you can sit a turntable? ;0) Life's life though eh? What you want is to track down a Mana Sound Frame, that 'will' make the deck sound better.

Is that the seller you were referring to?

No, I know this guy LINK and he seems to have some. The guy who makes them used to sell them direct from China on eBay, I assume Stamford just offered to distribute them for him. You can however still buy them direct from China and it is cheaper. You can also buy them in a box/case configured as an outboard supply and apparently they do sound better than the same board mounted inside the deck. Direct they cost about £200, which is very cheap.

You can usually see burn marks on the Valhalla board when they fail. Actually, you can usually see burn mark on the board anyway! One reason for getting the supply out of the deck, lets it cool better and at least sit the right way up!

Sure you can't test the motor in some way? I should have an old basik PSU here from an early LP12 that you could wire up, that would at least let you check the motor, if I can find it, but It's very unlikely they the motor has suddenly failed. Not impossible, but not likely.
 
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Chromatic

Chromatic

Legendary Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Mr Pig said:
No, I know this guy LINK and he seems to have some. The guy who makes them used to sell them direct from China on eBay, I assume Stamford just offered to distribute them for him. You can however still buy them direct from China and it is cheaper. You can also buy them in a box/case configured as an outboard supply and apparently they do sound better than the same board mounted inside the deck. Direct they cost about £200, which is very cheap.

You can usually see burn marks on the Valhalla board when they fail. Actually, you can usually see burn mark on the board anyway! One reason for getting the supply out of the deck, lets it cool better and at least sit the right way up!

Sure you can't test the motor in some way? I should have an old basik PSU here from an early LP12 that you could wire up, that would at least let you check the motor, if I can find it, but It's very unlikely they the motor has suddenly failed. Not impossible, but not likely.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, been busy etc. Thanks for the offer of a loan of the supply but I won't take you up on it. I think I'll get the Hercules kit that includes a motor too and if my original is found to be OK then I move on the unused bits. Thanks for your help.
 
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