Hi-Vis OR Lights

[BentMikey]

...and here's the shot with nothing other than ambient light. Neither of us has lights switched on and pointing towards each other.

 

[HLaB]

Hi vis is a perfect substitute for lights if the cyclists has a death wish and wants to expose other innocent folk to the trauma, muppet is about all that be said (nicely) about the bloke the OP talked to.

 

[gaz]

While I agree that the bloke is a muppet (why does he refuse to use lights anyway? Does he have a phobia of them or something?) I disagree strongly about hivis being pointless.

Maybe on certain commuter routes in london the roads are awash with dayglo yellow, but in daylight - and particularly early morning or late evening where there is still daylight to catch the yellow but not dark enough to let lights really be visible, dayglo stands out like a beacon.

Another area where Gaz (and I believe BentMikey) and I disagree is the 'looking like a cyclist' thing. Hivis reflector panels give you a greater definition at night and make it clearer to other road users that you are a cyclist, and I feel this would mean them behaving more appropriately around you. I'm not keen on the 'wtf is that avoid it' approach as I fear that confusing other road users would lead to unpredictable and potentially dangerous behaviour.

The bicycle makes you look like a cyclist. Not Hiviz.

I won't commet on the rest as my statement was about the topic at hand, the effectiveness of Hiviz at nightime.

 

[TheBoyBilly]

What does he have against lights?

It seems to me the two reasons for not using lights is a) it is seen by some as cool as not to, and b) the cost of the lights themselves.
Regardless of the legal arguments, it's NOT cool (quite the reverse as people look chavvish riding without 'em IMHO) and light's don't have to cost the earth - a £20 set will be easily good enough in town, and even a £10 set could save your life.
I got a set of Smart lights with my last bike purchase and can't believe how good they are for the RRP.
Anyone riding without lights is a numpty

Bill

 

[gambatte]

As has been said, lights are a legal requirement. Imagine the 1st time this guys knocked off his bike and he tries to claim damages against the car drivers insurance.....<*Insurance companies 'get out clause No 1' will be?*>

I don't tend to wear Hi viz. Not a conscious thing. I just don't really have anything. However the bike has 2 front and 2 rear lights. The bike also has 3M diamond grade reflective tape attached full length of the seat stays.

The 1st time I commuted with the tape I had a 'regular' catch me at the lights and comment about how far back he'd been able to see me.

TBH, I always think back to doing training for my motorbike test and the instructor saying to generally use the headlight all the time. Think about what you look like to someone coming out of a junction and what you can sensibly do to highlight your presence. 'Rights' are one thing, self preservation another.

 

[jonny jeez]

As has been said, lights are a legal requirement. Imagine the 1st time this guys knocked off his bike and he tries to claim damages against the car drivers insurance.....<*Insurance companies 'get out clause No 1' will be?*>

I've read stories on this forum of riders being "blamed" for collisions as they were not wearing high viz. The inference was that it was their fault that the driver didnt see them, as apposed to being the drivers thought for not looking properly.

So if the insurance is an argument then we should all wear high viz, have lights, reflectors on our wheels, helmets, fat tyres, reflective armbands and never ride more than 6" from the gutter.

Insurance companies are just looking for reasons not to pay out, they are not interested in your safety (assume the same rule for polititians)

 

[gaz]

I've read stories on this forum of riders being "blamed" for collisions as they were not wearing high viz. The inference was that it was their fault that the driver didnt see them, as apposed to being the drivers thought for not looking properly.

So if the insurance is an argument then we should all wear high viz, have lights, reflectors on our wheels, helmets, fat tyres, reflective armbands and never ride more than 6" from the gutter.

Insurance companies are just looking for reasons not to pay out, they are not interested in your safety (assume the same rule for polititians)

Insurance companies will dO what ever they can to get out of paying you. How ever as Hiviz is not a legal requirement that should not place any blame on the cyclist if a driver failed to see them.
I could quite easily push away an insurance company from that alone, threaten then with small claims court and they will pay up

 

[GrasB]

Define "decent light"

an LED light that that runs on AA or AAA rather than CR2332 button battery or similar.

 

[rowan 46]

I use both. There's no doubt in my mind that lights at night are a sensible requirement. For years I used one set of lights 1 night the rear packed up on me and I never noticed at least until a few cars started giving me near misses. I have 2 sets now. I still get the occasional close shave from idiot drivers but not as many as I had that night, I think from that experience that drivers did not have the time to prepare adequately for me. As for Hi-Vis it does little at night the reflective strips help a little but not much. During the day is when Hi-Vis comes into its own

 

[gambatte]

Aviva etc might have problems citing responsibility for not wearing hi viz. However, my point was, I don't think they'd have too much trouble apportioning some level of blame for not having working lights, which is a legal requirement at night

 

[BentMikey]

an LED light that that runs on AA or AAA rather than CR2332 button battery or similar.

I think our definition would have to be more specific. Some of the older LED lights powered by AA or AAA are so dim as to be virtually useless.

 

[gaz]

In a city environment you need something bright as well!
There is so much light coming from every road user, street lights and shops that you really need something bright to stand out from the crowd.

 

[marinyork]

Well at least he wears a vest, even if it is of very limited use. I work with a ninja master who doesn't even do that. At least for him he works in daylight hours at the moment which is not the case in the middle of winter . I suppose depending on what city or town it is might drag the risk down a bit at midnight, but it's not particularly hopeful.

 

[Bristol Dave]

One of my best investments was a little Knogg Frog light that I attach to my helmet. It points where I'm looking and can be easily seen over parked cars. I believe it has saved me several times from accidents. Buy your mate one!

BD

 

[davefb]

...and here's the shot with nothing other than ambient light. Neither of us has lights switched on and pointing towards each other.

arent cameras amazing,,, i'm guessing those wierd glowing lights look nothing like that!

[edit]
esp compared to the first photo with the light shining at it, the keep lefts still glow utterly unnaturally, but you can make out the actual blue sign....