Crankarm
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- Nr Cambridge
If it's hot hot hot, you will need a lot of water 
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Hills: how bad
- Thread starter Alexios
- Start date
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I'm confused (which is easily done, these days!)
Isn't Antakya (Hatay) ancient Antioch, in SE Turkey? I can't find anything anywhere near it above 2000 feet, let alone metres. The Cilician Plain is a long way to the north west, on the other side of the gulf, and any road pass to 2000m+ will surely be going further NW over the Taurus mountains. Put me right, please, Alexios.
As a rough rule of thumb I would expect the road mileage to be at least double the the straight line distance, which would make the gradient far more manageable. Roads more than a couple of hundred years old don't often sustain an angle over 7 or 8% because that is the steepest you can get a horse and cart up.
Where else have you cycled in Turkey, Alexios? It is something I have always wanted to repeat, but I only did a flattish route from Istanbul to Ankara via the Black Sea coast.
Hi ASC1951,
Yes, Antakya is ancient Antioch - thats what I think of it as anyway. Concur Cilician plain is to the North West. I was actually planning to ride pretty much due East of Dortyol, which is on the Western side of the Gulf of Iskenderum. Not precisely the Cilician plain to Antioch as per my original post, but I was trying to use names that people would recognise. My map (1:750,000, not 1:75,000 as per original post, apologies), has a couple of spot heights over 2000m just East of Dortyol, part of a range of hills running roughly 040-220T, seperating Antioch from the Gulf of Iskenderum. Happy to be persuaded that its 2000 ft, not metres, but a quick check suggests that my map is in metres. The hill line I'm talking about isn't the Taurus mountains (been over them in a coach), which are to the North and West of the Cilician plain as you say. And concur on road mileage versus straight line - my original post was unclear.
And I may also have been unclear about cycling in Turkey, for which I apologise. I haven't actually been cycling in Turkey, pretty much only in the UK, but I have visited most of the Turkish South and East coasts over the last 25 years or so, plus Istanbul, Ankara, Knoya, Antioch etc. All by boat and coach though, nothing as impressive as Istanbul to Ankara by bicycle.
How did you find Turkish roads? Is it easy to find side routes? And did you do wild camping or stop in small towns? I'd be very grateful for your expertise.
Yes, Antakya is ancient Antioch - thats what I think of it as anyway. Concur Cilician plain is to the North West. I was actually planning to ride pretty much due East of Dortyol, which is on the Western side of the Gulf of Iskenderum. Not precisely the Cilician plain to Antioch as per my original post, but I was trying to use names that people would recognise. My map (1:750,000, not 1:75,000 as per original post, apologies), has a couple of spot heights over 2000m just East of Dortyol, part of a range of hills running roughly 040-220T, seperating Antioch from the Gulf of Iskenderum. Happy to be persuaded that its 2000 ft, not metres, but a quick check suggests that my map is in metres. The hill line I'm talking about isn't the Taurus mountains (been over them in a coach), which are to the North and West of the Cilician plain as you say. And concur on road mileage versus straight line - my original post was unclear.
And I may also have been unclear about cycling in Turkey, for which I apologise. I haven't actually been cycling in Turkey, pretty much only in the UK, but I have visited most of the Turkish South and East coasts over the last 25 years or so, plus Istanbul, Ankara, Knoya, Antioch etc. All by boat and coach though, nothing as impressive as Istanbul to Ankara by bicycle.
How did you find Turkish roads? Is it easy to find side routes? And did you do wild camping or stop in small towns? I'd be very grateful for your expertise.
Ah, those hills. All I have is Google Earth, which shows there are indeed some stonking big peaks. The only road I can find up to anything like the top is the new one to Samandag at 5800 feet, but most of the passes seem to get you up to at least 3500 feet, enough to make your eyes water on a hot day. Google Earth also suggests that not many of them are tarmaced.....
Well, I was there in about 1990, and much will have changed. We did wild camp i.e. full touring kit, but our only map to start with was out of the back of a diary. The roads varied hugely in quality, but no more than in rural Spain or France at the time, although they did have a disconcerting habit of ripping up the whole road for repairs, rather than one side at a time. If we had had a large scale map no doubt we could have stuck to smoother roads, but we chose to travel as people have traditionally done on long journeys in strange lands - have the name of the place you want to be in three days time, and the place you want to be that evening, read the terrain (and you get quite good with practice) and talk to the locals. Since we had no reason to be in one place rather than another, it was a fortnight of surprises, some bad, but most good.
We actually found it quite difficult to camp. The GF and I would pole up at a village in the early evening, bikes like donkeys, and sit down outside the coffee shop for half an hour to gather our thoughts, then before we knew it we would have people insisting we came and stayed with them. We often did - our rules were that we used to stock up on some foodie treat to produce as our share, we would play with any children available and our hosts rightly expected to hear our life story - but in the more remote places we would only have half an hour's shared vocabulary in English/French/German/Turkish so a whole evening and breakfast could get quite demanding. Every couple of days we would stick up our tent on the way in so that we could say 'sorry, we've already got the tent up', but that wasn't always enough.
Delightful, hospitable people and stunning scenery.
All this was inland. I expect that on the coast they are the same over-worked, over-heated souls that have to extract a living from rude unappreciative tourists everywhere from Bodrum to Gibraltar..
Wardy
Active Member
I think a lot depends on a) what sort of bike you intend hauling over those mountains and b) what sort of gears you have. I would also like to think that you'd had some hill-climbing experience in the UK first to establish what your capabilities were. I calculate that 2000m equates to 6562ft or in other words almost two and a half Scottish Munros! Dont forget too, that it's going to be pretty hot there - I don't know if you watched the part of Mark Beaumonts round the world trip where he climbed thru Turkiye, but you could see he found it tough going. I've been cycling for many years and done climbs like the Bealach Na Ba in the western highlands (admittedly when I was a lot younger!), but I'd want to try doing more climbs in hot weather first before attempting your trip.
Going back to the OP's question -
- I would come at this a different way, Alexios. Why do you need to plan your route accurately? You don't - all you need to plan is where you start and finish, not where you go in between. Overplanning in life (not the same as preparation) is the enemy of enjoyment.
On your all-up 11kg bike you should manage 60 miles a day with no problem, even in hot weather.
asterix
Comrade Member
- Location
- Limoges or York
asc1951, I think he said his time was limited in the OP hence the need for planning. If his bike and gear is really only 11kg then I'd agree that 60 mpd is a realistic target for a reasonably fit tourer. OTOH if he has a touring load of 11kg and the weather is hot, 60 mpd could prove difficult without sacrificing much or all of the pleasure and many of the sights!
I only know Turkey from sailing hols but if it was the Pyrennees I would do no more than 50 mpd max for a leisure ride (I was fit enough to do the 100 hour Raid Pyrenean in June this year on a 12kg bike.)
..so I'd take that with a pinch of salt!
I only know Turkey from sailing hols but if it was the Pyrennees I would do no more than 50 mpd max for a leisure ride (I was fit enough to do the 100 hour Raid Pyrenean in June this year on a 12kg bike.)
..so I'd take that with a pinch of salt!
Point taken. I read his post to mean that the 11kg included his luggage - and he does say he has worked in the Middle East for years and is well acclimatised.
I still hold to my view on daily mileage, though. He only needs to know where he starts and where he finishes, so the sensible thing is to set those with a gap that he is bound to complete but with scope to add miles if he finds he is going well. To have set daily destinations - if that is what is suggested - is IMO to miss the point of cycle touring.
ASC 1951,
To answer, the reason I want to plan my route slightly is because I am on the side an amateur historian and there are a number of sites I want to see. I'm now working out a circular route including Gaziantep and Sanliurfa. Don't worry, I have a spare day planned in. And thank you for your advice about Turkey. I'm really looking forward to the trip.
Alexios.
To answer, the reason I want to plan my route slightly is because I am on the side an amateur historian and there are a number of sites I want to see. I'm now working out a circular route including Gaziantep and Sanliurfa. Don't worry, I have a spare day planned in. And thank you for your advice about Turkey. I'm really looking forward to the trip.
Alexios.
It sounds great. My particular interest was the Bronze Age and pre-Classical Mediterranean, but the only site I was able to make a detour to see was the tomb of Midas at Gordion, which was well worth the visit. Accurate information and a nice low-key museum.
Full report when you get back, please, Alexios!
