mr_cellophane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Essex
Did the car have a valid tax disk ?
Hit a car...should you stop or just cycle off?
- Thread starter Sheffield_Tiger
- Start date
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BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Some of the comments on here are similar in principle to a car driver taking offence at you cycling in the cycle lane, and then driving to force you off the road.
OP
OP
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
Sorry, can you expand because I don't get what you mean or see any parallels between a car parked blocking the road and passage of other vehicles;
and a cyclist using any particular lane, all of which are permissible; nor between a fall whilst attempting to negotiate such an obstuction with care and the scenario you descrivbe of deliberately driving at and endangering the safety or life of another road user by using a larger vehicle as a weapon.
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
ST, if you ride off, morally you are actually in the same boat as a motorist who wipes out a cyclist in a hit-and-run. Different degree, but still wrong on your part. Sorry, a philosopher has spoken 
Black Sheep
Guru
- Location
- Rammy
there is a car park in town that has 20 spaces (small i know) people bump it up to 22 spaces by parking in the walkway that you are to use to get to the ticket machine (clearly marked and hashed out as no parking)
I've seen a guy in a wheelchair park there, get a ticket for not displaying a pay and display ticket who I saw again a week later (regular trip I guess for him) sticking stickers on the offending car's windscreens informing them that they shouldn't be parked there and he won't be responsible for anything he does to get to the machine.
i've seen other people just bash door mirrors out of the way to get past and seen people climb on/ over the cars to get to the machine
never seen anyone put a ticket (fine) on the offending cars
I've seen a guy in a wheelchair park there, get a ticket for not displaying a pay and display ticket who I saw again a week later (regular trip I guess for him) sticking stickers on the offending car's windscreens informing them that they shouldn't be parked there and he won't be responsible for anything he does to get to the machine.
i've seen other people just bash door mirrors out of the way to get past and seen people climb on/ over the cars to get to the machine
never seen anyone put a ticket (fine) on the offending cars
asterix
Comrade Member
- Location
- Limoges or York
The problem is that the UK is a car-obsessed nation (not the only one, of course) cars are a self-centred means of transport using far more resources than is necessary in order to feed an entire global economy. For most they are beyond critiscism.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Well yes, certainly that moton is behaving selfishly by parking like that. Does it excuse your getting angry with him and teaching him a "lesson" with criminal damage, if we look at your hypothetical example?
Of course not. You're on a bicycle after all, at least it's not hard to get past.
If you were lucky and he was in a company car, you could teach a much more effective lesson by taking photo/video of the car and writing to the company. That would leave you with the moral high ground, unlike your solution.
Of course not. You're on a bicycle after all, at least it's not hard to get past.
If you were lucky and he was in a company car, you could teach a much more effective lesson by taking photo/video of the car and writing to the company. That would leave you with the moral high ground, unlike your solution.
I think that BM's point was that (leaving aside the legalities) you saw the car as an obstruction to your free passage which briefly made you change your speed and course. Similarly, some drivers see cyclists as being an obstruction to their free passage which briefly make them change their speed and course.
JoysOfSight
Active Member
My first response was going to be, if the car's not moving, you have a responsibility not to hit it - just as, in your example of a cyclist who's stopped in the road (for whatever reason) or someone standing in the road, all have a right to expect a driver who hits them to take responsibility.
But then I thought about this - around our estate at the moment people have parked so badly ( and the snow mounds are so bad) that not only can you not get a baby's pushchair up the pavement, but you can't even get it up the road. In this situation does the "right" of mother and child to get home in one piece trump the "right" to leave your property where you please and have others be responsible for any damage that comes to it?
What if, in the OP's situation it had been a fire engine going to a burning tenement block, and people are dying because of the delay - should they be able to ram the car clear or not (i.e. who is ultimately responsible for damage caused by an obstruction, does it make any difference if the damage is *to* the obstruction?)
So, I'm not so sure.
(edited for wierd html tags that appeared)
But then I thought about this - around our estate at the moment people have parked so badly ( and the snow mounds are so bad) that not only can you not get a baby's pushchair up the pavement, but you can't even get it up the road. In this situation does the "right" of mother and child to get home in one piece trump the "right" to leave your property where you please and have others be responsible for any damage that comes to it?
What if, in the OP's situation it had been a fire engine going to a burning tenement block, and people are dying because of the delay - should they be able to ram the car clear or not (i.e. who is ultimately responsible for damage caused by an obstruction, does it make any difference if the damage is *to* the obstruction?)
So, I'm not so sure.
(edited for wierd html tags that appeared)
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
[QUOTE 1265059"]
Why? You know there is snow and ice on the road so you leave earlier...
[/quote]
Your Boss lets you leave work earlier if there is adverse weather? - cool boss!
Why? You know there is snow and ice on the road so you leave earlier...
[/quote]
Your Boss lets you leave work earlier if there is adverse weather? - cool boss!
Lizban
New Member
- Location
- Blackheath, London
OMG - I can't believe that people think it's ok to cycle off!
You've hit a car (a badly and potentially illegally parked car I understand) but how on earth does that justify you not stopping or reporting it later?
We moan (rightly) that cars shows us no tolerance - yet in this instance the boots on teh other foot and there is a discussion over the rights and the wrongs of whether even to stop/report it.
Mind you the poster clearly has an anger issue based on the tone of the post and admission that he folded in wing mirrors - lucky it was only with his hand!
You've hit a car (a badly and potentially illegally parked car I understand) but how on earth does that justify you not stopping or reporting it later?
We moan (rightly) that cars shows us no tolerance - yet in this instance the boots on teh other foot and there is a discussion over the rights and the wrongs of whether even to stop/report it.
Mind you the poster clearly has an anger issue based on the tone of the post and admission that he folded in wing mirrors - lucky it was only with his hand!
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
I get both sides.
For me, if I'd hit it with my shoulder and there was no damage, then no harm done. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't decided to leave his vehicle right in the middle of the road to go to the shops -- illegal, obstructive, and far more potentially dangerous than a low-speed collision with a cyclist's shoulder. I've only hit someone's car once when on my bike, at incredibly low speed, and I stopped and apologised profusely (utterly mortified) and was lucky enough that the guy was understanding.
If I'd damaged it with my bars then it's a bit different, but even then. How badly damaged? The sort of damage that anyone with a relatively steady hand and half a brain could fix with bottle of touch-up paint and some T-cut? I can't see a bike causing a lot more damage than that. I.e. the sort of damage that a garage will charge a three to four figure sum because they decide it needs the attention of a panel beater and maybe a new door. I'd also be concerned about my personal safety, as I've encountered more drivers who think cyclists should be shot than I have drivers who are pleasant and rational about their vehicles.
I don't think it's fair to make a direct comparison with a driver hitting a cyclist or a bike because the potential damage done to the cyclist and bike by a car is proprotionately bigger than the potential damage done to a car by a bike (and the driver is unlikely to be damaged at all, especially if he's in the shop at the time).
In an ideal world I'd stop and discuss it with the driver if I'd scratched the vehicle. If I'd merely managed to bruise my shoulder then I wouldn't.
By discuss, though, you can be sure that I'd make it quite clear that he shouldn't have been illegally obstructing the road in the first place. These days I take pictures of the vehicle when a driver has done something stupid like that.
Sam
For me, if I'd hit it with my shoulder and there was no damage, then no harm done. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't decided to leave his vehicle right in the middle of the road to go to the shops -- illegal, obstructive, and far more potentially dangerous than a low-speed collision with a cyclist's shoulder. I've only hit someone's car once when on my bike, at incredibly low speed, and I stopped and apologised profusely (utterly mortified) and was lucky enough that the guy was understanding.
If I'd damaged it with my bars then it's a bit different, but even then. How badly damaged? The sort of damage that anyone with a relatively steady hand and half a brain could fix with bottle of touch-up paint and some T-cut? I can't see a bike causing a lot more damage than that. I.e. the sort of damage that a garage will charge a three to four figure sum because they decide it needs the attention of a panel beater and maybe a new door. I'd also be concerned about my personal safety, as I've encountered more drivers who think cyclists should be shot than I have drivers who are pleasant and rational about their vehicles.
I don't think it's fair to make a direct comparison with a driver hitting a cyclist or a bike because the potential damage done to the cyclist and bike by a car is proprotionately bigger than the potential damage done to a car by a bike (and the driver is unlikely to be damaged at all, especially if he's in the shop at the time).
In an ideal world I'd stop and discuss it with the driver if I'd scratched the vehicle. If I'd merely managed to bruise my shoulder then I wouldn't.
By discuss, though, you can be sure that I'd make it quite clear that he shouldn't have been illegally obstructing the road in the first place. These days I take pictures of the vehicle when a driver has done something stupid like that.
Sam
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
ST you need to chill a bit when cycling....
People park cars in stupid places full stop - even more in bad weather. Causes inconvenience, but if you'd have skidded in your car, slightly nudged the other car, no damage, you wouldn't jump out and kick it.
You've skidded caused by riding in a position where there was a likelyhood of this happening. You've only nudged the car, no damage, but to then slap it...cool down...
You make yourself sound just as bad as those drivers who sit there ranting and raving behind the wheel, 'cos everyone else is in their way.
Sh1t happens, deal with it.
Oh and have a few beers tonight - it's been a tough few weeks out there. 
Oh back to original question - if you've damaged a car, then you should stop (but that's the correct answer)....
People park cars in stupid places full stop - even more in bad weather. Causes inconvenience, but if you'd have skidded in your car, slightly nudged the other car, no damage, you wouldn't jump out and kick it.
You've skidded caused by riding in a position where there was a likelyhood of this happening. You've only nudged the car, no damage, but to then slap it...cool down...
You make yourself sound just as bad as those drivers who sit there ranting and raving behind the wheel, 'cos everyone else is in their way.
Sh1t happens, deal with it.
Oh and have a few beers tonight - it's been a tough few weeks out there. Oh back to original question - if you've damaged a car, then you should stop (but that's the correct answer)....
OP
OP
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
ST you need to chill a bit when cycling....
People park cars in stupid places full stop - even more in bad weather. Causes inconvenience, but if you'd have skidded in your car, slightly nudged the other car, no damage, you wouldn't jump out and kick it.
You've skidded caused by riding in a position where there was a likelyhood of this happening. You've only nudged the car, no damage, but to then slap it...cool down...
You make yourself sound just as bad as those drivers who sit there ranting and raving behind the wheel, 'cos everyone else is in their way.
Sh1t happens, deal with it.
Oh back to original question - if you've damaged a car, then you should stop (but that's the correct answer)....
Not quite.
I've SLIPPED whilst forced to walk straddling my bike on sheet ice past an illegal (not "potentially" as suggested earlier..it IS illegal) obstuction, on a road that was otherwise safe to cycle on. Not quite the same as "skidded whilst riding", insofar as it illustrates further the level of obstruction.
Dismounting and walking around on the pavement, in cycling shoes, on the sheet ice would have been more hazardous to ME, and if that makes me selfish by risking damaging a car obstructing the way by someone with the attitude that they can block whatever road they like, as opposed to risking personal injury by trying to skate with bike up kerbs etc on a path I know to be almost unwalkable on, then I'll change my name to Selfish McSelfish quite happily.
As for folding the wing mirrors in, that wasn't done in anger. They were done carefully in the hope that at least some of the illegally parked cars may get the message that they are now causing obstruction, and not slammed in, in anger or vindictiveness. Who knows, they might even get the message before the wardens eventually come out from hibernation and slap tickets all over them.
Anyway, when I left, I left a van blasting it's horn at the car causing the blockage.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Fair enough..........
Not good for the old blood pressure getting worked up though.
Not good for the old blood pressure getting worked up though.
