How will cyclists ever get the respect of road users?

[Twanger]

So, Dellzeqq, do we just sit and wait for us to outnumber them?

Breed for victory!

 

[dellzeqq]

So, Dellzeqq, do we just sit and wait for us to outnumber them?

Breed for victory!

I think we will. I think the car has had its day in cities, and that the next ten years will be momentous. I'm pretty gloomy about most things, but, when it comes to cycling in cities I'm really optimistic.

If it helps I think that the countryside is a lost cause.

 

[Twanger]

I think we will. I think the car has had its day in cities, and that the next ten years will be momentous.

Amen!

 

[diamondwhite]

except pedestrians, users of mobility vehicles, horse riders...

But None of those are likely to run a red light.

You seem to be a bit tinged with the "I'm a victim, where's my right to support" bit.

Not at all. I'm describing the situation as it is.

Instead of saying "higher premiums", wouldn't it be better for your own mental health to think "Thank God I had insurance!"?

Sure, but of course I have insurance it is a legal requirement and I'm a responsible road user.

The next motorist to hit me is fairly likely to be uninsured (I understand that up to a fifth of motorists are uninsured), but will be able to claim for his scratched paintwork or his shattered career prospects from my estate because, guess what, I DO have insurance. But one thing is certain. If I do get hit, it will not be when red light jumping because I don't do it.

But MIB will pay out for you in which case. If he was uninsured he wouldn't be able to claim off you he shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. I'm not suggesting you do or would.

I'm not asking for sympathy no just putting a contrarian view to the one typically portrayed as the cyclist as the only victim on the road without disparaging cyclists. I trying to point out the consequences of not following the highway code and thinking one is above the law. It has consequences. This person paid for it with their life. I and anyone similar lives with it for their life.

As a cyclist if a car pulled out in front of you whether they had insurance or not you could expect to be compensated in full.

I didn't mean that. Not in that tone, anyway.

i didn't take offence but if the roles were reversed would the reaction be as neutral from theose that perceive themselves as cyclists rather than fellow human beings?

 

[Twanger]

I am very glad that such a system exists, then. You have made your point clearly.

 

[purplepolly]

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplepolly
except pedestrians, users of mobility vehicles, horse riders...

But None of those are likely to run a red light.

But they do cause accidents. Pedestrians cross without looking, horses bolt. Pedestrians are a very real hazard for cyclists because they can't hear us and assume the road is clear.

My one and only accident in 30 years of cycling and 15 years of driving was caused by a pedestrian. He was fine, I couldn't walk properly for a month.

There's one poster on here who woke up in hospital to be told that someone had stepped out in front of him. I think he had a broken leg. It's not a stretch of reality to say that someone could be killed in such circumstances if a car was overtaking the cyclist at the same time.

 

[diamondwhite]

But they do cause accidents. Pedestrians cross without looking, horses bolt. Pedestrians are a very real hazard for cyclists because they can't hear us and assume the road is clear.

Indeed and those are accidents, accidents that are seldom caused by not following the rules. Yes a pedestrian may cross unexepectedly but its seldom deliberately without looking. And if pedestrians or horses are about one tends to be more expectant of risk and be ready. To have someone appear in front of you because they chose to run a red is a different matter. and as I remember from cycling a bell was provided to warn other road users because they may not hear you.

I don't want to sound like I'm on a soap box about this. I just want to put my point across and help myself come to terms with it I guess, its a form of therapy getting some of what I am feeling off my chest.

Discussing it with friends who also drive their main complaint about cyclists is jumping red lights and the belief that the highway code doesn't apply to them, as well as wondering why they don't wear helmets.

As I remember it there used to be commercials vilifying drivers that ran red lights "don't be an amber gambler" perhaps the same sort of adverts should be run for those cyclists who do the same?

As to cyclists ruling the cities well that won't be a bad thing but for those that depend and the customers that depend on those to deliver their washing machine or fix the boiler or fit the bathroom suite etc there will always be a need for transport be it electric or otherwise other than just a cycle.

I spent some time in Taiwan and my experience there of cyclists and particularly mopeds that ruled the road was not much better men on bikes carrying ladders, 3 /4 to a bike etc.
My best experience was in Holland where bike and car coexisted much more sensibly.

From my point of view, its not a case of them and us, it's simply a case of good and bad users of the road.

 

[bennytheegg]

The boytaylor, you wrote the following 2 comments that have really made me think:

Without getting all Politics& Life on this thread, it is my half-arsed opinion that nowadays the majority of people are incredibly selfish and this manifests itself in their driving/ riding/ cycling behaviour and their rationalisations of why they act in the way they do - I've never heard a RLJer say "yeah, I guess I'm taking a chance doing this". It's always "well I only do it when I can see it's safe" as if they've got some innate risk assessment skill that the rest of us mere mortals do not possess. I'd be more inclined to believe that guff if I saw more RLJers take anything more than a cursory glance around before barrelling through the lights.

Once again, +1 (sorry).

It may sound a bit pie in the sky but it would surely be to the benefit of all cyclists if it is their community that is seen to be the one acting responsibly. It is hardly surprising that cyclists' calls for greater respect for ourselves is frequently rebutted by accusations that we don't respect other road rules. Whether you think the things levelled at cyclists are fair or not and whether you regard them as less significant or dangerous than the actions of careless motor vehicle drivers, if they weren't occurring, there wouldn't be the ammunition for drivers to use.

I got into cycling “properly” when living in Birmingham and having to sit/stand on a bus for 45 minutes on the Hagley Road. I got a bike and got my time down to 11minutes. It’s such a buzz flying through traffic, and is quite an exciting way to start your day. I cycle to go fast and never bother stopping at red lights unless my legs are tired, it’s a pedestrian crossing and there are actually people there, or I have to because of moving traffic. Not having a license plate, and being able to get out of situations quickly mean that I play to my rules on the roads, rather than the Highway Code. I never have a problem with cars not seeing me because a) I’m wearing hi-vis clothing and I pump my bike hard, overtaking as and when I can, diving into slipstreams etc. Motorists give me a wide berth because I think they’re concerned about me hitting them. I’m conscious of never forcing a car to slow down and on a long straight where cars can catch me up, I get as far left as is safe to do so, in order for them to overtake easily.

And until reading this thread, I thought acting like this was completely acceptable. I was only risking my own safety, and the stigma attached to the cycling community did not affect me, because I never felt part of a community… but I kind of do now. I never considered the impact an accident would have on the person who’d hit me would have, and it was good for me to read diamondwhite’s story. The responsible attitudes shown by the CC community make me feel part of the problem. I was the idiot who’d fly past whilst you guys were waiting at the lights. Perhaps a campaign to stop cyclists RLJing by other cyclists would have a strong impact.

Theboytaylor, but I promise to change now and be part of the solution. Until it had been put across the way you just did, I never really saw the issue. One more member recruited to team anti-rlj!

 

[yenrod]

> How will cyclists ever get the respect of road users?

If cyclists had licences + had to do road-tax i feel there'd be a difference !

I honestly would.

I'd have no qualms about it either.

 

[hackbike 666]

Yes a pedestrian may cross unexepectedly but its seldom deliberately without looking.

This is a joke right?

 

[theboytaylor]

One more member recruited to team anti-rlj!

Excellent! I've always stopped at red lights but I used to ride aggressively between them and give a lot of stick to any vehicle that was "in my way", whatever I considered that to be. Again, reading posts on CC made me think about the way I was riding and why it seemed to "attract" problems.

I know I can't change every vehicle users' perception of cyclists in general or me on a bike, but I have definitely found that as I've calmed down and ridden in a sensible fashion, I have a better rapport (for want of a better word this early in the morning) with others on the road and the incidents that I am involved in are far less frequent and with less blame that can be attached to me.

I do think that cyclists could try some kind of community-led campaign, but even just making people think about their cycling behaviour seems to help!

 

[wafflycat]

> How will cyclists ever get the respect of road users?

If cyclists had licences + had to do road-tax i feel there'd be a difference !

I honestly would.

I'd have no qualms about it either.

So Rodders, if cyclists pay 'road tax' when would you like motorists to start p[aying it too?

Once again... THERE IS NO SUCH TAX AS ROAD TAX!

 

[PBancroft]

Once again... THERE IS NO SUCH TAX AS ROAD TAX!

True, but many drivers (and a lot of non-drivers too, I'd wager) perceive there to be such a thing. They don't actually care that VED isn't Road Tax - to them it is. It's a tax which gives them a bit of paper which allows them to drive on the road, ergo, its Road Tax.

And we don't pay it.

 

[aJohnson]

True, but many drivers (and a lot of non-drivers too, I'd wager) perceive there to be such a thing. They don't actually care that VED isn't Road Tax - to them it is. It's a tax which gives them a bit of paper which allows them to drive on the road, ergo, its Road Tax.

And we don't pay it.

Maybe motorists would prefer if we sent cheques with the value of 0 to the council, then we'd be paying it.

 

[dellzeqq]

But None of those are likely to run a red light.




Not at all. I'm describing the situation as it is.

Sure, but of course I have insurance it is a legal requirement and I'm a responsible road user.



But MIB will pay out for you in which case. If he was uninsured he wouldn't be able to claim off you he shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. I'm not suggesting you do or would.

I'm not asking for sympathy no just putting a contrarian view to the one typically portrayed as the cyclist as the only victim on the road without disparaging cyclists. I trying to point out the consequences of not following the highway code and thinking one is above the law. It has consequences. This person paid for it with their life. I and anyone similar lives with it for their life.

As a cyclist if a car pulled out in front of you whether they had insurance or not you could expect to be compensated in full.

i didn't take offence but if the roles were reversed would the reaction be as neutral from theose that perceive themselves as cyclists rather than fellow human beings?

I'm struggling to make allowances, but this really betokens a complete lack of appreciation of reality.

Vastly more car drivers than cyclists jump red light. Cars pull out in front of cyclists all the time, and the fact that they're insured doesn't excuse it. The threat to other road users from cycles is very much less than the threat to other road users by cars because the weight of the cycle is so much less. Road users are responsible for the damage their vehicle does to others, and they should behave accordingly - driving a car brings a degree of responsibility that doesn't attend riding a bike. A person who drives a car that kills a cyclist or pedestrian has clearly failed to ensure that the tonne of metal and plastic is under proper control. And your attitude is offensive.