Hub v Mid (crank drive) anyone tried both ?

[Steve Harrison]

Disagree with all that. I've always noticed the difference between my carbon and alu bikes . 3 or 4 kg is massive

Want to pedal down hill to go faster

If you're used to lightweight road bikes any ebike is going to seem heavy.
Coming from a MTB background I'm used to a 16kg bike and my hybid ebike is about the same.
As to your original query about mid vs hub motors I can't comment from experience although I was advised mid is better for the hills as it drives through the bikes gears.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have heard that some ebike have significant resistance from the motor if it is not under power
e.g. when going above the 15.5 mph cutoff

but the ones I have owned have not had any at all as far as I can see or feel

I read someone moaning about a Bosch - which is like mine - but it was one of the higher performance ones and mine is the lowest level
so I sort of assume the the higher performance ones suffer from this a lot more than the lower power ones
(although they are all rated at 250W)

 

[kingrollo]

Will somebody just tell me I need a pinarello nytro !!!

 

[Dadam]

I have an Orbea Gain D40 with the X35 rear hub motor.

1) It's about 14.5 kgs without mudguards etc. The carbon frame equivalent is about 11.5kg. I can understand a gravel oriented bike may have a bit more weight due to frame, tyres and wheels, but I came to it from my Giant hybrid which is about the same weight so it didn't feel heavy to me.

2) I've not noticed any motor drag per se. Doing a spin down test on a stand, yes the rear wheel does stop a little quicker than a normal hub but when riding this is not noticeable. You do notice what feels like drag when the motor cuts out at 15.5mph, but I find it as easy to pedal above the cutoff, on the flat as my non electric road bike.

The X35 only has a sensor in the rear wheel to detect pedalling. There are magnets in the cassette lockring. Basically if the cassette is moving with the wheel, it detects this as the bike being pedalled and applies the motor - if assist is on and under the cutoff speed. When setting off it does take half a second or so before the motor comes on.

Many other ebikes have torque sensors and if the controller is suitably programmed, can detect pedal pressure from static and apply the motor from a standing start. My Bosch powered eMTB can do this, but I think it's only in some settings.

Some hub motor bikes have a torque sensor setup but it's mostly mid motors as it can be built into the motor/BB housing rather than separate.

3) As others have said, spinning out is purely down to the gearing. My Gain has a compact 2x 50/34 so this isn't a problem.

 

[kingrollo]

I have an Orbea Gain D40 with the X35 rear hub motor.

1) It's about 14.5 kgs without mudguards etc. The carbon frame equivalent is about 11.5kg. I can understand a gravel oriented bike may have a bit more weight due to frame, tyres and wheels, but I came to it from my Giant hybrid which is about the same weight so it didn't feel heavy to me.

2) I've not noticed any motor drag per se. Doing a spin down test on a stand, yes the rear wheel does stop a little quicker than a normal hub but when riding this is not noticeable. You do notice what feels like drag when the motor cuts out at 15.5mph, but I find it as easy to pedal above the cutoff, on the flat as my non electric road bike.

The X35 only has a sensor in the rear wheel to detect pedalling. There are magnets in the cassette lockring. Basically if the cassette is moving with the wheel, it detects this as the bike being pedalled and applies the motor - if assist is on and under the cutoff speed. When setting off it does take half a second or so before the motor comes on.

Many other ebikes have torque sensors and if the controller is suitably programmed, can detect pedal pressure from static and apply the motor from a standing start. My Bosch powered eMTB can do this, but I think it's only in some settings.

Some hub motor bikes have a torque sensor setup but it's mostly mid motors as it can be built into the motor/BB housing rather than separate.

3) As others have said, spinning out is purely down to the gearing. My Gain has a compact 2x 50/34 so this isn't a problem.

Thank you.

It has a 11/44 SRAM cassette with I think a 42 front chainring.

Could I just source a different rear cassette? - would that make much difference?

My best bike has a brand spanking 105/di2 12 speed gruppo - with regards to the magnets in the current locking - how straightforward would it be to transplant my 105 set up onto the Mahle bike ? - would I need a Shimano lock ring with magnets ?

 

[Mike Ayling]

After a recent HA - I purchased a decathlon road e bike with the X35 hub motor .

Living in a reasonably hilly area it's been great for giving me the confidence to go out cycling again.

I got it at a quite reasonable £1900 - I am finding a few limitations.

1.) Weight - for one of the lighter e bikes it seems incredibly heavy .

2.) Drag - maybe as a result of 1 above on the flat I struggle to get any momentum

3.) SRAM 1x - when descending I spin out and can't pedal no more - even in the hardest gear - this effects my speed on descents and overall drag.


With retirement looming - and a reminder that the grim reaper has marked my card - I'm thinking about blowing a serious wedge on a mid motor e road bike - but given these are heavier or comparable would it really be any better ?

Re #2 - start in a high assistance level then scale back when you get up to cruising speed

 

[Dadam]

I understand you can change cassettes but clearly you need a lock ring with the magnets or the sensor won’t work. I don’t know about cross compatibility between SRAM and Shimano though.

 

[Gwylan]

So? What's the view on mid versus hub drive?

 

[Stul]

I was advised hub was more efficient as the motor drives through the gears. I tried an ( old ) hub motor bike before deciding and did not like it, so opted for a Raliegh / Bosch crank drive. In comparison I found the crank drive to feel much more "natural", and went up hills better.

Not really a problem pedaling over 15.5 mph if on the flat or slight downhill, (I regularly cycle with other people on non e-bikes, and while it can be hard work to keep up with them when the motor cuts out, this is purely down to the weight rather than any motor drag).

I also ride with people who have newer (rear) hub drives, one person recently changed from a crank drive and he says he has not noticed any difference???

Best thing you can do is test ride both, (and make sure you include some steep hills), then decide from there...

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

One thing I notice on the hub drives that I have had is that they are not so good t realising that I have stopped pedalling

so they have needed a sensor on the brake levers so they know to cut out when you start breaking

so if you are following someone slower and coasting from time to time then they will tend to keep going when you are intending to slow down slightly

I only realised that when I realised that the folder we have has a problem with the front brake sensor - so if just use the front brake then the brake and motor fight each other for a second or so

crank drive realise as soon as you back off

 

[CXRAndy]

Thank you.

It has a 11/44 SRAM cassette with I think a 42 front chainring.

Could I just source a different rear cassette? - would that make much difference?

My best bike has a brand spanking 105/di2 12 speed gruppo - with regards to the magnets in the current locking - how straightforward would it be to transplant my 105 set up onto the Mahle bike ? - would I need a Shimano lock ring with magnets ?

No not really for top cadence. You might drop it by 5 rpm at full chat.

Where and why would you want to pedal flat out to maximise top speed downhill but not pedal flat out uphill.

I've pedalled on 7% descents at 52mph at 140rpm cadence with 48t chainring and 11t cog. Why would you want to do that after an heart attack?

 

[kingrollo]

No not really for top cadence. You might drop it by 5 rpm at full chat.

Where and why would you want to pedal flat out to maximise top speed downhill but not pedal flat out uphill.

I've pedalled on 7% descents at 52mph at 140rpm cadence with 48t chainring and 11t cog. Why would you want to do that after an heart attack?

I live in quite in a hilly area - I used to regularly get over 40mph on non technical descents - now that's down to 33 at best.

Not sure about your point about the HA - my heart rate is always higher on the climbs than the descents.

My cardiologist+ exercise rehab team are fine with me cycling (I'm 62 and back off if my HR starts getting into the high 130s)

Cardiac wise I've made an excellent recovery - the cardiologist says he's only seen a handful of people recover so well .

Mentally - I'm struggling - I feel like a ticking time bomb waiting to croak it.

The only way I can square it is to live life to the max - so yeah I want to whizz down those non technical descents as fast as I can.

Way off topic.

I think we're all agreed I need a pinarello nytro!!!

 

[CXRAndy]

Completely understandable.

All the best in your quest 👍

 

[kingrollo]

Completely understandable.

All the best in your quest 👍

Cheers