I didn't realise bicycles were so different to ride

[Aston]

In the last year I bought and restored, with a lot of help from LBS, a Thorn Club Tour, which is a little small for me, but nothing insurmountable, it's a joy to ride, Brooks saddle, relaxed touring position and butterfly type bars. I saw a Dawes 501 for sale locally, enquired and was gifted it it's aluminium, carbon forks and a nice Deore transmission. I needed to replace the brakes before riding it and a few touch ups to the frame. Really as a bike to ride into town/leave locked when shopping without worry.

I've just returned from a very short ride and it feels horrible, jumped on the Thorn to check, which felt just so comfortable and controlled in comparison. The bars and seat heights are broadley comparable, maybe the bars on the Dawes are a bit lower, it also has more reach and higher standover, so much weight on my hands, doesn't help I have painful arthritis on left wrist.

The question is, do I take the Dawes to LBS and ask them to fettle it, the rear gear change could be smoother, but otherwise everything works, maybe try the Brooks on it? Or is it more systemic than that, steel vs aluminium/carbon or geometry... which I don't understand. Currently I'm minded to try and sell it

My riding has been local rides up to 20 miles, one time camping, and I would like to venture further with a tent next year.

Think I've moaned on enough... thoughts?

Thank you

Having just added the photos the bars on the Dawes do look lower, maybe I should try a different stem

 

[Webbo2]

Two things that stand out. Your bars are much lower on the Dawes and your saddle points up on the Thorn.
The ( much) lower bars on the Dawes are probably the source of your discomfort.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

The ride feeling from the tyres could also be a factor, I'm struggling to make out specs of the Thorn tyres, but the Discovery looks to have a Marathon rear of some description. Which while more puncture resistant, could make the ride feel harsh and a bit sluggish through higher rolling resistance.

Is it just me, or are the Thorn tyres very similar size, but the rear of the Discovery is much bigger than the front tyre?

 

[MontyVeda]

those two stems will feel very different.

After thirty years on an MTB, getting a Brompton earlier this year just felt so very different; twitchy on the steering. It took some getting used to, then going back onto the MTB the steering felt sluggish to the point of checking the headset wasn't stiff. It wasn't, it just felt so very different. I love them both for different reasons.

 

[Aston]

Two things that stand out. Your bars are much lower on the Dawes and your saddle points up on the Thorn.
The ( much) lower bars on the Dawes are probably the source of your discomfort.

I fear I have been a bit previous in posting this, @Webbo2, you are quite right, I've just been to measure both bikes...

I assume the only way of raising the handler height on the Dawes is to change the stem angle/reach? Yes, @N0bodyOfTheGoat, both tyres are 700, the rear tyre is 35c, front 32c! Something else to change. The Thorn has Panaracer Pasela Protite tyres

Dawes
Seat height 99cm
Bar height 95cm
Seat nose to bars 57.5cm

Thorn
Seat height 99 nose 97 mid seat
Bar height 99cm
Seat nose to bars 48cm

 

[wafter]

You probably want to try and isolate exactly what you're not liking about the Dawes - fit, ride quality, handling...?

You could nail down discrepencies in fit a bit more by measuring reach and stack to the bars on both by nosing them up against a wall and using that and the floor as a datum to measure to the bars and BB to calculate these values.

Ally frames are generally built a lot stiffer than steel as flex means cracks, and that does look pretty stiff. @N0bodyOfTheGoat's point about the rear tyre is a good spot; equally if the ride feels buzzy and harsh through the seat it's probably the frame. The only ally bike I've ever owned was a proper bone-shaker..

While I don't trust composite I have found placcy frames can ride very nicely; although how well the fork performs will be down to the particulars of its construction..

If it's a materials / frame issue you'll not do much to remedy it so best get rid; if it's a fit issue it can potentially be resolved.

EDIT: Having seen those numbers it seems the Dawes is very long and low; the stem already pointing upward with the steerer tube cropped very short so no room for adding spacers and raising the stem. I suspect your only viable option would be to fit one of those grotty adjustable stems and set it so it's pointing skyward to bring the reach back and increase the stack.

Unless you really want / need the bike I'd be tempted to punt it on tbh..

 

[Gillstay]

I would level your saddle on the Thorn and try a shorter stem on the Dawes. Try different tyre pressures and not worry that your front tyre is smaller dia. After all most motorbikes don't have same size tyres.

 

[si_c]

It's the tyres. Schwalbe Marathon, known for feeling lifeless and dull, and Panaracer Pasela's which are a generally nice tyre to ride, it's hard to think of tyres that would give more of a difference to ride feel.

Edit to add: the Thorn will be a much more forgiving ride as well as being a steel frame will absorb vibration better. The dawes I would expect will need better tyres to feel as good as the other bike. Add in a saddle that suits you better and it will significantly change how the bike feels.