You can help it along a bit by expecting drivers to able to stop within the distance they can see, and letting them know you expect it.
Idiots at work
- Thread starter markharry66
- Start date
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It doesn't wash. You're making excuses for them.
cd365
Guru
- Location
- Coventry, uk
I never expect any driver to see me so I try and ride accordingly.
Sorry - I didn't mean expect in the sense of think it likely - I meant expect in the active sense - as in "England expects..."
cd365
Guru
- Location
- Coventry, uk
There is no excuse for not seeing a cyclist, unlit or not. I cycle and drive the same unlit roads on my commute, and I have driven past unlit cyclists that I didn't see until the last few seconds. I don't moan about them, I think they are daft but it is their life and their decision to cycle unlit. But in the real world, people and the courts will see an unlit cyclist being hit by a car as the cyclists fault. It doesn't matter if it is a right or wrong view, that is how society sees it.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
"Um, yeah" ... "I forgot"..."Can't be arsed, mate"..."There are street lights, aren't there?"..."I'm only going down the road"..."**** off"2884567 said:
I can't argue with much of that, but none of it is inevitable or fixed for eternity. It's a product of the existing power relations on our roads - power relations which have an adverse impact on public space, social relations, and the soft flesh and breakable bones of human beings. Every time we collude in the obsessive focus on unlit cyclists (who harm no one, unless they are charging along without regard for pedestrians, which is a different issue) we put off asking the question that really matters - why those who bring danger to our roads cannot or will not take responsibility for that danger. Unqualified, absolute responsibility, with no ifs or buts.
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
Oi, that's my line......2884593 said:
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
The 'only' thing that irritates me about unlit cyclists is the way some drivers lecture me about them because I'm a cyclist...like I am responsible for their lack of lights by association?
Like @theclaud eloquently put above, we have a seemingly all-powerful motoring body whose driving causes untold misery and harm to the communites they travel through, and despite the massive death and injury toll, they are held in high esteem by our society as a whole and are very unwilling to accept responsibilty for their actions.
A quick research on most collisions reported in the news shows the same (tired) excuses, 'They came out of nowhere, I didn't know the road, they suddenly stopped, I was blinded by the sun, couldn't see for fog, I thought I had time to get past, he just stepped out in front of me....et al'
Now as much as I don't like 'ninjas' (because of the blame game) - I spot them very easily myself because I am actually driving and anticipating them being there. Much the same as I anticipate people/kids stepping out from behind buses, dogs running out from gardens, cars stopping suddenly and any manner of other scenarios that can crop up.
I would love the courts to actually start coming down a LOT harder on people convicted of motoring offences, because the whole, 'Oh woe is me' piffle they bleat all the time is getting a little boring now.
Like @theclaud eloquently put above, we have a seemingly all-powerful motoring body whose driving causes untold misery and harm to the communites they travel through, and despite the massive death and injury toll, they are held in high esteem by our society as a whole and are very unwilling to accept responsibilty for their actions.
A quick research on most collisions reported in the news shows the same (tired) excuses, 'They came out of nowhere, I didn't know the road, they suddenly stopped, I was blinded by the sun, couldn't see for fog, I thought I had time to get past, he just stepped out in front of me....et al'
Now as much as I don't like 'ninjas' (because of the blame game) - I spot them very easily myself because I am actually driving and anticipating them being there. Much the same as I anticipate people/kids stepping out from behind buses, dogs running out from gardens, cars stopping suddenly and any manner of other scenarios that can crop up.
I would love the courts to actually start coming down a LOT harder on people convicted of motoring offences, because the whole, 'Oh woe is me' piffle they bleat all the time is getting a little boring now.
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
Why on earth not, because that is the ONLY way collisions can be avoided.
Are you seriously suggesting we should accept vehicle crashes and write them off/excuse dangerous/careless driving because in the real world drivers don't leave enough room to stop?
Linford
Guest
You mean like Leona Helmsley ?
glenn forger
Guest
[QUOTE 2884744, member: 45"]Ah, but how would they know?[/quote]
they're the ones lying on the road going "Ow".
they're the ones lying on the road going "Ow".
cd365
Guru
- Location
- Coventry, uk
I'm not suggesting that at all, people at fault for harming others should be punished accordingly. UK courts are far to lenient on bad driving, lengthy bans should be used a lot more, especially for the "I didn't see them" brigade.
But in the real world society see's too much as a simple accident and only because they probably haven't seen the world from a cyclists point of view since they were a kid. I'm not saying this is right I'm saying this is what happens. The more people who take up cycling the better, then views will change but it will be a slow process. So in the meantime cyclists should not give the car fraternity the ability to get on their high horse about unlit cyclists.
[QUOTE 2884740, member: 45"]It's not that a good one. I'd suggest that most unlit cyclists just can't be arsed.[/quote]
It doesn't matter a lot. If you're determined to be moralistic about it, you can't tell the ones that can't be arsed from those that have another reason. If you simply accept that you shouldn't run people over, it ceases to matter so much.
It doesn't matter a lot. If you're determined to be moralistic about it, you can't tell the ones that can't be arsed from those that have another reason. If you simply accept that you shouldn't run people over, it ceases to matter so much.
asterix
Comrade Member
- Location
- Limoges or York
I have some rather good lights on my town bike. Cateye. Yesterday at the top of The Mount in York I was going straight across, light in my favour, my right of way blah, blah. Sod all difference, the car turning right, turned right!
Either the driver wasn't looking at all or, in my opinion given appearances, thought it's only a cyclist, I'll make them give way.
Almost certainly they will then still feel entitled to moan about cyclists who RLJ, pavement cycle or have no lights. Because that's the sort of person who makes the most noise about anything.
In my experience of driving through town, I can see unlit cyclists under street lights. Unlit roads, it is a different matter but the same applies to pedestrians some of whom die because drivers travel at speeds beyond their ability to stop.
Either the driver wasn't looking at all or, in my opinion given appearances, thought it's only a cyclist, I'll make them give way.
Almost certainly they will then still feel entitled to moan about cyclists who RLJ, pavement cycle or have no lights. Because that's the sort of person who makes the most noise about anything.
In my experience of driving through town, I can see unlit cyclists under street lights. Unlit roads, it is a different matter but the same applies to pedestrians some of whom die because drivers travel at speeds beyond their ability to stop.
