ignorance...

[GrasB]

I think the HC code in this case is wrong! Quite often on single track roads there isn't enough space for a car & a bike to safely pass each other (at which point I'll be in primary anyway), be it an overtake or two vehicles passing, thus the difference between people riding 2 abreast & single file is minimal for the courteous drivers & an active deterrent for the more bullish. Again riding single file round corners, drivers a number of drivers try to overtake on corners & bends, this is a potentially disastrous manoeuvre & almost completely eliminated when riding two abreast.

With that said when doing this riders do need to take the time to look over their shoulder every few seconds, which is what they should be doing anyway, & pull in to let a vehicle behind them pass.

 

[Debian]

And what does the country code say about the same thing . Drivers need to chill out a bit.

So you're saying that the Highway Code should only be obeyed when it suits you?

 

[marinyork]

So you're saying that the Highway Code should only be obeyed when it suits you?

Your understanding of the highway code is very poor but I let it go. The highway code is a hierarchy mate, understand that and we'll have no disagreement. If you want to be going 'the highway code literally means this or literally means that' you're welcome, but that's not how it is designed.

 

[Debian]

Your understanding of the highway code is very poor but I let it go. The highway code is a hierarchy mate, understand that and we'll have no disagreement. If you want to be going 'the highway code literally means this or literally means that' you're welcome, but that's not how it is designed.

I'm not your mate but I'm willing to learn, as always. Could you please explain what it is that I don't understand?

 

[PK99]

The HC states:



and this is where I do take issue with cyclists sometimes. My opinion is that cyclists should only ride two abreast when doing so still leaves room for a car to pass.

On a single lane road, such as the one the OP states he was riding on, and especially when negotiating a bend in the road then single file should be the rule.

i agree, on our club rides (in Surrey) we would single out on a road as described by the OP even in the absence of a car.

if there is not room for a car coming the other way if doulbled up, but there is if singled out (the situation as described by the op) then the group should be in a single line. It is a matter both of courtesy and personal safety

 

[Debian]

I think the HC code in this case is wrong! Quite often on single track roads there isn't enough space for a car & a bike to safely pass each other (at which point I'll be in primary anyway), be it an overtake or two vehicles passing, thus the difference between people riding 2 abreast & single file is minimal for the courteous drivers & an active deterrent for the more bullish. Again riding single file round corners, drivers a number of drivers try to overtake on corners & bends, this is a potentially disastrous manoeuvre & almost completely eliminated when riding two abreast.

With that said when doing this riders do need to take the time to look over their shoulder every few seconds, which is what they should be doing anyway, & pull in to let a vehicle behind them pass.

I actually think you're wrong.

I'm often to be found cycling the back lanes on the Somerset Levels, some of which are effectively single track with passing places. I never have a problem riding a decent secondary nevertheless, there's plenty of room for an oncoming or following vehicle to pass me with no delay or danger to either party. I've never, ever had a problem on these lanes but I frequently see club rides blocking most of the road with a "couldn't care less" attitude and a queue of cars behind them.

As to bends in the road - a following motorist who happens upon a cyclist whilst rounding a bend will usually have room to pass a cyclist or pair of cyclists in single file even in a sudden situation. The same situation with the cyclists riding two abreast would probably result in a collision.

 

[marinyork]

I'm willing to learn, as always. Could you please explain what it is that I don't understand?

The highway code is more a kind of guide and not to be taken as one single rule but a whole and the weighted importance of each one and not take one rule to assume supremacy over everyone else.

So for example on this issue one of the things the highway code gets most worked up about is DO NOT park in passing places which is the second most important tier in the highway code hierarchy. Makes sense to me. If some idiot goes and parks in a parking place that's quite a few of the places on some of these country roads where I can't easily let cars/vans/caravans past. Not my fault is it. The other thing is that again the highway code gives its second most important tier to DO NOT overtake... on a corner or bend. Again this outranks the advice given to cyclists. Infact the highway code spends an entire mini subjection telling people not do various overtaking things. So although it's probably not a good idea to be monkeying around on small narrow lanes cyclists are a vurnerable group and the highway code has given drivers chapter on verse on it. It really isn't big cheese if there are two cyclists blocking a narrow bend there might even be good reasons for doing so, so yeah it might be annoying but people know very well they shouldn't be overtaking there or if they do do it then with extreme caution.

 

[Debian]

Are you still in a 'decent secondary' when the traffic passes you?

Yes, in a word.

A lot of these lanes have significant camber as well as edges suffering from subsidence so going close to the edge is not always advisable for a cyclist. I find that by holding position then without exception oncoming and passing drivers give me plenty of room. In five years of regularly cycling these lanes I've never come across a single instance of inconsiderate driving against me.

 

[marinyork]

The difficultly with defining 'lanes'. Some of the ones I've been on are only about 5 or 6ft wide but with various fiddles traffic can use to get past.

 

[GrasB]

By the sounds of it the single track roads you're riding down are about 1.5 lanes wide so yes maybe file up for those but most of the single track roads around here are barely wide enough for a transit van which certainly isn't enough space for a car to safely pass a cyclist with both parties at a nominal road speed.

As to bends in the road - a following motorist who happens upon a cyclist whilst rounding a bend will usually have room to pass a cyclist or pair of cyclists in single file even in a sudden situation. The same situation with the cyclists riding two abreast would probably result in a collision.

You've just failed hazard perception.
Say a car is coming the other way & is cutting the corner/running wide. Exactly what is the car overtaking you going to do? Pull tighter into the corner... question 2 exactly where are you?.. on the tighter line in the corner, if you have a group of people then the driver is in danger of wiping out on or more of the group.

 

[Debian]

By the sounds of it the single track roads you're riding down are about 1.5 lanes wide so yes maybe file up for those but most of the single track roads around here are barely wide enough for a transit van which certainly isn't enough space for a car to safely pass a cyclist with both parties at a nominal road speed.


You've just failed hazard perception.
Say a car is coming the other way & is cutting the corner/running wide. Exactly what is the car overtaking you going to do? Pull tighter into the corner... question 2 exactly where are you?.. on the tighter line in the corner, if you have a group of people then the driver is in danger of wiping out on or more of the group.

I'm not talking about a car trying a "legitimate" overtake on a bend, this is obviously wrong. But what happens if a driver is rounding a bend and in the process happens upon a cyclist or cyclists half way round? If the cyclists are in single file then they can probably be passed even in an emergency situation, if they were riding two abreast then there probably isn't room for an emergency pass.

 

[Debian]

What you are talking about effectively is a blind bend and in the above instance I would say the car is going to fast for the conditions.

WTF should they passed in an emergency situation?

Car driver going to fast - simples sweet FA to do with cyclists riding two abreast.

But yet it happens. Most drivers don't expect to come up against something doing 12 mph and in that respect virtually every driver takes bends too fast.

I see plenty of mountain bikers hurtling down steep bridleways on the Mendips and elsewhere way too fast to stop if, say a child stepped into their path - it's all relative.

But how fast then should a driver take a bend? Yes, I know, always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear but it never happens so cycling in single file on a bend is pure common sense and personal safety.

 

[GrasB]

I'm not talking about a car trying a "legitimate" overtake on a bend, this is obviously wrong. But what happens if a driver is rounding a bend and in the process happens upon a cyclist or cyclists half way round? If the cyclists are in single file then they can probably be passed even in an emergency situation, if they were riding two abreast then there probably isn't room for an emergency pass.

Now we're beyond someone being a little careless & into the realms of reckless/dangerous driving. To get into this situation they'd have to be tanking into a sharp corner & not been using any observation skills worth a damn.

 

[BentMikey]

Debian mate, if there's enough room to overtake one cyclist safely, there's also enough room to overtake two riding abreast. Anything else is driver impatience and taking chances on the overtake.

 

[thomas]

The HC states:

never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

and this is where I do take issue with cyclists sometimes. My opinion is that cyclists should only ride two abreast when doing so still leaves room for a car to pass.

On a single lane road, such as the one the OP states he was riding on, and especially when negotiating a bend in the road then single file should be the rule.

I disagree with your points but they would not really be valid in this case. It really depends on your definition of narrow and I wouldn't say that it was. It was a country lane, so obviously not as wide as main roads but was of reasonable size. We weren't on the corner either, though we could see around the corner when we did take it after so riding two abreast would have been fine there too.

Had there been a car coming the other way she would of definite have had to have stopped, possibly she would have had to stop for a motorbike too as they would probably have been in the position I was in riding on the outside.

Even if you believe we were cycling inappropriately, it still doesn't excuse her from not reducing her speed (not even lifting off) until the last moment (the introduction of the HC is very clear about avoiding accidents ), so my point about anticipating the needs of other road users was still appropriate.

For instance, had I been knocked off by this biker it would probably have been his fault....though only because I'd of refused to react to an obvious event. Even if you think someone is in the wrong, it pays just to be patient

What you are talking about effectively is a blind bend and in the above instance I would say the car is going to fast for the conditions.

WTF should they passed in an emergency situation?

Car driver going to fast - simples sweet FA to do with cyclists riding two abreast.

+1...some very well put posts by you and GrasB