improving safety

[dawesome]

unfortunately i am not willing to discuss the above, as it would breach my terms of employment, im sure you can appreciate that.

I understand completely.

 

[Red Light]

The bit not quoted here from the Guardian report:

"The study, carried out for the Department for Transport, found that in 2% of cases where cyclists were seriously injured in collisions with other road users police said that the rider disobeying a stop sign or traffic light was a likely contributing factor. Wearing dark clothing at night was seen as a potential cause in about 2.5% of cases, and failure to use lights was mentioned 2% of the time.The figures were slightly higher when the cyclist was killed, but in such cases only the driver's account is available."

​

So those things that seem to be winding everyone up actually account for a very small percentage of the accidents.

 

[Red Light]

unfortunately i am not willing to discuss the above, as it would breach my terms of employment, im sure you can appreciate that.

Why? Nobody's asking for names and addresses, just the number (which I suspect is zero) and anyway, any deaths are a matter of public record and news reports so its hardly a breach of confidentiality. Its the sort of information that would be readily released under an FoI request.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Is there anyone other profession that relies so much on it's own "experience" compared with statistics as those allied to the medical ? And is there any other group so willing to inflate figures to allow them to preach? There are from memory about 120 cyclists killed a year in the UK. Again from memory over 25% of those are involved in left turning HGV "accidents" where I doubt where an ambulance would be of any use. That leaves most about 80 a year who make it to an ambulance , 80 spread through the UK, through night and day, 7 days a week, across all the ambulances . How many exactly have you had in die your ambulance to allow you to pontificate about "some do not get a chance to blame anyone." ? You sound to me, to be of the same ilk as that stupid BeHit woman ,who talks of the hundreds of children she has seen die due to lack of helmets. She couldn't do maths either , and she seemed to think that being a nurse gave her some special insight into trauma prevention rather than treatment. The medical trade are the panel beaters of the human world, if I want to keep my car out of an accident I will take advice from an engineer or a driving coach, not a panel beater.

We'd call an ambulance anyway, as they can now declare the injured party deceased at the scene. I read pooley's "died in the back of the ambulance" as rhetorical. Its entirely possible hes attended many of those 25% left turning HGV's.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

No LYB I didnt forget to answer your question, I deliberately didnt answer it, because only a sick dim-wit would want to know something like that, and I do not have to justify myself to a fool like you.

No you don't , unless you wanted to use your "experience" as a basis for your preaching.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Well said; cue the rabble with the 'Helmet' debate...!

Reading the poorly thought-out, badly constructed, illogical arguments put forward in this thread and the wholly disproportionate, Daily Mail levels of outrage, I wonder if this shouldn't be moved to "Helmet Debates".

Just a thought...

 

[twobiker]

No you don't , unless you wanted to use your "experience" as a basis for your preaching.

Touchy are'nt you, You may want to see it as preaching , but it could also be taken just as a simple reminder that the darker morning and evenings are coming, where I live it is often dark enough under the trees to require lights and yet light enough not to on the open ground, one minute you are invisible the next you are not, you will never prevent every accident, that is why its called an accident, any suggestion that may help is welcome. And "panel beater" what planet are you on, I would'nt want to scrape up the messes they have to deal with.

 

[BentMikey]

And all the nasty victim blaming in the name of "improving safety". Whilst it's all good and well that we do plenty to help ourselves, let's not be ignoring the elephant in the room here, and the killer and injurer of the vast majority of road users, being drivers and their vehicles.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

let's not be ignoring the elephant in the room here, and the killer and injurer of the vast majority of road users, being drivers and their vehicles.

People don't stop talking about this particular elephant so we could hardly say that he's in the room right now. As twobiker just said, the OP is probably just giving us a friendly reminder, and is now having their hand bitten off for taking the trouble to do so. I think if I'd just scraped a cyclist off the floor I might be tempted to do the same - irrespective of whether I thought the driver was at fault or not.

 

[dellzeqq]

Is there anyone other profession that relies so much on it's own "experience" compared with statistics as those allied to the medical ? And is there any other group so willing to inflate figures to allow them to preach? There are from memory about 120 cyclists killed a year in the UK. Again from memory over 25% of those are involved in left turning HGV "accidents" where I doubt where an ambulance would be of any use. That leaves most about 80 a year who make it to an ambulance , 80 spread through the UK, through night and day, 7 days a week, across all the ambulances . How many exactly have you had in die your ambulance to allow you to pontificate about "some do not get a chance to blame anyone." ? You sound to me, to be of the same ilk as that stupid BeHit woman ,who talks of the hundreds of children she has seen die due to lack of helmets. She couldn't do maths either , and she seemed to think that being a nurse gave her some special insight into trauma prevention rather than treatment. The medical trade are the panel beaters of the human world, if I want to keep my car out of an accident I will take advice from an engineer or a driving coach, not a panel beater.

damn right

 

[dellzeqq]

We'd call an ambulance anyway, as they can now declare the injured party deceased at the scene. I read pooley's "died in the back of the ambulance" as rhetorical. Its entirely possible hes attended many of those 25% left turning HGV's.

'rhetorical' as in 'not true'?

Our friend Olaf as made a record of almost all the cycling deaths in London for the past five years. Check it out.

https://docs.google....bXc&hl=de#gid=0

Note, please, the time of day. That's 'day' as in not 'night'.

Now I routinely advise people coming on night rides to use two rear lights, and I insist that their batteries are full of juice, but suggesting that there is a bloodbath caused by ninja cyclists is just plain wrong

 

[pooly1uk]

Touchy are'nt you, You may want to see it as preaching , but it could also be taken just as a simple reminder that the darker morning and evenings are coming, where I live it is often dark enough under the trees to require lights and yet light enough not to on the open ground, one minute you are invisible the next you are not, you will never prevent every accident, that is why its called an accident, any suggestion that may help is welcome. And "panel beater" what planet are you on, I would'nt want to scrape up the messes they have to deal with.

thank you to you and all the others who see my post as it was intended and not as a "panel beater preaching" we will always get the argumentative few that think they know it all but actually know nothing, like LYB & Co.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Touchy are'nt you, You may want to see it as preaching , but it could also be taken just as a simple reminder that the darker morning and evenings are coming, where I live it is often dark enough under the trees to require lights and yet light enough not to on the open ground, one minute you are invisible the next you are not, you will never prevent every accident, that is why its called an accident, any suggestion that may help is welcome. And "panel beater" what planet are you on, I would'nt want to scrape up the messes they have to deal with.

It could have been read as that if he hadn't have tried the bogus " appeal from authority" as for " any suggestion" being worth it, there is a problem solving rule of thumb called the 80/20 rule, where 80% of your problems are caused by 20% of the causes , so if you want maximum effect at problem solving you look at the biggest chunk first. Cyclists without lights are involved in less than 3% of accidents if the OP was really interested in " improving safety" rather than preaching from an ill informed , narrow perspective ( and then insulting those that questioned him ) he may want to consider what causes the other 97+%

 

[CopperCyclist]

Sorry but stats don't prove anything for either side of the fence. More deaths in London during daylight hours? Hmm, wonder if the fact that theres about thirty times* the cycle traffic on the roads thanks to the commuters have anything to do with skewing that statistic.

Equally I'll give you theres an argument to say any statistic showing riders with no lights getting killed cold be skewed by other facts.

For me, its best to ignore stats and use common sense. If I cycle at night without lights, I'm less likely to be seen and more likely to be hit. I say this with no proof, no evidence, its just my 'gut feeling' and I'll be going with it.

* the number '30 times' is one of the 86% of statistics that are made up on the spot.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Sorry but stats don't prove anything for either side of the fence. More deaths in London during daylight hours? Hmm, wonder if the fact that theres about thirty times* the cycle traffic on the roads thanks to the commuters have anything to do with skewing that statistic.

Equally I'll give you theres an argument to say any statistic showing riders with no lights getting killed cold be skewed by other facts.

For me, its best to ignore stats and use common sense. If I cycle at night without lights, I'm less likely to be seen and more likely to be hit. I say this with no proof, no evidence, its just my 'gut feeling' and I'll be going with it.

* the number '30 times' is one of the 86% of statistics that are made up on the spot.