Is a driver getting out of their car an act of potential aggression?

[Aperitif]

Am I reading this right? Your assessment seems to be that - well, being as she was outside the cycle lane, she has to accept a close pass.

Are you sure?

Now, the cyclist does not give the cyclist on her inside anywhere near enough room. That's not good cycling.

But arguing that because the car is in a good position "in relation to the white lines" (!!), the overtake was alright, is frankly absurd.

The driver should be in a good position with respect to the human being on the bicycle - regardless of how poor her overtake on the other cyclist is (in fact I would say that's a reason for being even more cautious, to compensate).

(To anticipate a comeback argument - I don't think the driver can argue that she suddenly swerved into his lane to overtake. She appears in the vid at 0:18, pretty much on the white line. The car overtakes her six seconds later, and in that time her line has barely deviated - maybe a few more inches to her right. As stated previously, her positioning is poor, as is the overtake - but she is in the driver's vision for plenty of time, and her line does not deviate substantially enough to justify the proximity of the pass).

Yes - I'm sure. If you are going to overtake, (or 'barely deviate' ) white line or not, then at least 'glance' so you're satisfied. (I'm not talking about avoiding action like swerving around a pothole or something like that - that's a reaction call - not pre-meditated...) Knowing the road - as people on regular commutes do, counts for a lot - it doesn't expand and contract for car drivers simply because a cyclist decides to pull out. Both sides should expect reasonable and well-indicated behaviour - that's commuting!
You talk about human being on a bicycle. There are also human beings in cars. Of course, the cyclist is vunerable, but that's what we acknowledge as cyclists, or should do - and behave accordingly.
Last night, while stopped at lights, I had a casual word with a cyclist on Finchley Road - one of London's race tracks...suggested that she might like to get a rear light as it was difficult to 'pick her up' on approach.
She lifted up her overcoat and there it was - flashing for its life to an audience of none.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

Yes - I'm sure. If you are going to overtake, (or 'barely deviate' ) white line or not, then at least 'glance' so you're satisfied. (I'm not talking about avoiding action like swerving around a pothole or something like that - that's a reaction call - not pre-meditated...) Knowing the road - as people on regular commutes do, counts for a lot - it doesn't expand and contract for car drivers simply because a cyclist decides to pull out. Both sides should expect reasonable and well-indicated behaviour - that's commuting!

Your original comment stated that there was "nothing wrong with the car's position."

I see nothing here to justify that claim.

You continue talking about the cyclist's behaviour here (which - to stress again, I agree was substandard) as if that automatically justifies where the driver positioned his car.

It does not.

Think this through.

 

[Aperitif]

This is what I see. And as much as I can think - that's what I still see.
Also, what might have gone on before to up the ante? Who knows?

 

[scouserinlondon]

This is what I see. And as much as I can think - that's what I still see.
Also, what might have gone on before to up the ante? Who knows?

Like others have said, I would consider this a mistake and hope that in a similar situation to make I would have taken primary in the lane to overtake, even though that action too could easily piss off a motorist.

It's a bloody easy mistake ot make and one I've done more times than I'd like to admit.

 

[BentMikey]

p.s. Aperitif, should I say a word about chancy overtakes and not looking back?

 

[gaz]

This is what I see. And as much as I can think - that's what I still see.
Also, what might have gone on before to up the ante? Who knows?

From that image what do you see?
A cyclist being passed too closely by a car.
As magnatom said earlier. It's up to the overtaker to make sure it is safe to overtake (you could say the same aboutthe cyclist vs cyclist overtake). What ever mistake the cyclist made when she overtook doesn't make his overtake fine.

And to the point as to what happened earlier, I can safely say that this was the first thing that had happened between the two.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

This is what I see. And as much as I can think - that's what I still see.

Yes, you're watching the same video as me. Good.

Do you still think there was nothing wrong with the car's position?

 

[Riding in Circles]

She isn't doing a lot to make herself visible at night is she?

 

[Aperitif]

Yes quite. Which is why I mentioned about pothole avoidance etc, Mikey. But yes - I'm as bad as anyone else at times, which is why I ride with a little 'give and take' in order to wend one's way...and would never consider any aspect of my cycling as 'good' - just appropriate, at best.
Now enjoyment of cycling, and company - the word 'good' just will not stop tumbling out...

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

[QUOTE 1245967"]
The cyclist is in the wrong position. So is the car.
[/quote]

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Some people are having a bit of trouble with latter part though.

 

[Bollo]

FWIW, I think the cyclist takes the brunt of the blame for the initial pass, with extenuating circumstances for the general carpness of the facilities and the belief by many motorists that cyclelanes define 'sufficient room'. Matey in the car could have anticipated the cyclist's manoeuvre or could have slammed the anchors on as the lady edged out, but to place that much trust in someone else in that kind of environment invites trouble. Everything that follows could have been avoided and in the circumstances I think gaz did the right thing. The final 'punishment pass' is a horror and IMO, deliberate.

Climbing on my high horse for a second, I think this little scene illustrates why I'm slightly uncomfortable with the shape of London's cycling revolution. There are plenty of people on bikes, but it often appears a bit competitive, self-regarding and f***-you. I can see where it's come from and it some ways it reflects the wider characteristics of London life, but ultimately it's not what will turn London into a genuine cycling city. I agree with 'teef that it's all got to calm down, lighten up and take a little more care of itself.

(Climbs off horse. Gives horse sugar-lump and goes to look up 'pompous' in the dictionary)

 

[400bhp]

It is up to the following driver who is considering an overtake to ensure that it is safe to do so.

That's the important point here.

Incident wouldn't have happened if he had hung back.

A very sensible move Gaz

 

[jonny jeez]

Poor cycling skills by the woman and bad and aggressive driving by Mr Angry.
A dangerous overtaking manoeuvre by the woman, she did not look to check as she wobbled to overtake the other cyclist. She was outside the white line when there was no need to be on a busy road like that. Bad lack of perception by the cyclist.

That of course does not excuse Mr Angry for his threatening behaviour.

+1.

Question 1...is getting out of a car an act of aggression..yes.

Question 2 is tapping on a window an equal act of aggression...yes. (I should know, I've dont both)

Poor riding skills on her behalf poor driving on his. both equally aggressive towards each other.

Great video though, I really like the way you dealt with this guy, very polite, pointing out the camera. This stopped him in his tracks and just diffused his agner, even to the point that he called the rider "madam". Shame it escalated. perhaps if someone had pointed out the riders failings as well as his own, he may have agreed that he they were both in the wrong and moved on.

 

[nightoff]

As most have said, it six of one and half a dozen the other.

The cyclist was a little eratic and poorly illuminated.

The driver either never anticipated the cyclist's overtake or noticed her drifting into his path or he did notice but couldn't be bothered to take any action. The driver certainly made no effort to slow down or alter course. Likewise, the cyclist never glanced over her shoulder to check that there was no faster moving traffic bearing down on her. She never signalled her intension to overtake, only assumed there was enough room.

If I had made that manoeuvre, I would have accepted the close pass and put it down to experience. I think tapping the drivers window made him focus on her mistake and aggresively defend his driving.

Gaz's intervention did a number of things. It diffused the confrontation between the driver and female cyclist, but also made it difficult for the driver to air his point of view. You could see the driver becoming so frustrated as his opportunity to retort was diminished. In fact he was almost struck by a passing car mirror as he stormed back into his car.

This in turn probably escalated the anger of the driver resulting in the far worse display of driving afterwards.

It was bad form of the driver to leave his vehicle which was definitely an aggresive act so plaudits to Gaz for protecting the female cyclist. Had he not been there I would expect the driver to have launched a tirade of abuse at the woman.

The problem here lies in the woman pointing the finger of blame when she also contributed to the close pass with her eratic riding.

The main lesson I will take from this is to try and remember to check behind before altering my line for my own safety as I would ultimately come off second best in a collision with a car.

 

[gaz]

The problem here lies in the woman pointing the finger of blame when she also contributed to the close pass with her eratic riding.

Best comment so far.

AS you mentioned earlier in your post. I would have taken that close pass on the chin and learnt that i should take a more deffesnsive position when overtake. As i do on this stretch of road, where overtaking requires you to look, judge the speeds, indicate, move out, pass safely and quickly and move back in. Thanking any driver behind you for being patient helps.