Is a driver getting out of their car an act of potential aggression?

[BentMikey]

I must say that that lady cyclist's close overtake, no looking, squeezing out into the car lane, and hoping it'll somehow fit does rather annoy me. I know that sort of cycling annoys lots of other drivers too.

My horror though, is reserved for that dangerous pass by the driver, his aggression outside the car to a lesser degree, and then the consistently bad pass of the second cyclist. I rather feel that driver doesn't deserve to keep his licence by the way he risked both those cyclists lives, because he had plenty of time in both cases to avoid such a close pass.

 

[marinyork]

Other viewers may notice that 'the cyclist' comes arrowing into the lane from somewhere to Gaz's right and shows no consideration for the group mentality that should have kicked in, instead of 'I'm overtaking, I'm not signalling and I'm not looking around' attitude that the cyclist displays. An act of potential aggression it could be said...

The proof of the pudding I suppose will be when you definitely see some 'bad cycling' and rush to protect a motorist from an unreasonable cyclist, in similar circumstances. Oh well.

It's not that teef, I'm just reading the rules how they are, I don't make them up or put that cycle lane in. I know that often leads to unpopular views in commuting because people like to go on about how crap cycle lanes are and how bad cyclists are in London. There are a lot of things that I'd 'really rather you didn't' but I have no control over them.

Riding right at the far edge of the cycle lane (on the line) like that cyclist was doing might well be regarded as aggressive riding (more so from the cycling perspective as they were overtaking another cyclist) but that's immaterial really. Whether it's a good idea or not is another matter entirely.

 

[benb]

FWIW, I think the cyclist takes the brunt of the blame for the initial pass, with extenuating circumstances for the general carpness of the facilities and the belief by many motorists that cyclelanes define 'sufficient room'.

Yes, there was something fishy about all that.

 

[Jezston]

Yes, there was something fishy about all that.

Let's not turn this in to a pun thread, please.

Don't take the bait, people!

 

[BentMikey]

Yes, no need to wade in.

 

[Aperitif]

It's not that teef, I'm just reading the rules how they are, I don't make them up or put that cycle lane in. I know that often leads to unpopular views in commuting because people like to go on about how crap cycle lanes are and how bad cyclists are in London. There are a lot of things that I'd 'really rather you didn't' but I have no control over them.

Riding right at the far edge of the cycle lane (on the line) like that cyclist was doing might well be regarded as aggressive riding (more so from the cycling perspective as they were overtaking another cyclist) but that's immaterial really. Whether it's a good idea or not is another matter entirely.

Hi Marin, I wouldn't be doing anything but riding on the 'edge', or toward the outside of that 'lane' - perhaps slightly outside it if I thought it was too constricting (as some are.) I always prefer to leave an escape route , inward - in case the scenario we're discussing occurs, regardless of blame etc... If the rider that I am inclined to overtake decides to shift position, I am immediately riding wider. Then I'm mixing it with wider faster vehicles and will reap the consequences - some folk think they own the road.
I make no comment about cycle lanes, apart from I wish they were plain tarmac and defined by a solid line - nothing else.

 

[addictfreak]

Well just looked at this video clip.

First off IMHO its a poor manouvre by the overtaking cyclist, who didnt appear to look over her shoulder at all, putting herself in danger. The car driver could certainly have slowed down so as not to squeeze past.

I dont think the act of getting out of your car is necessarily an act of aggression. I also think the fact that Gaz was straight in the guys face didnt help either, and may have inflamed the situation a little. His (driver) main altercation seemed to be with Gaz.

What followed was very aggressive and dangerous driving, maybe if things had been a little calmer earlier that could have been avoided.

 

[decca234uk]

I'd agree that it was poor overtaking by the woman. She didn't look stable or confident to me. The overtaking was too close. The guy when he originally got out of the car seemed quiet reasonable, it would have been interesting to hear what he was about to say before being told he was on video. He did lose it at the end. Good use of head cam though. I think these are a good idea for cyclists, keep thinking of getting one myself.

 

[addictfreak]

I have viewed it again, my original comments stand and I would add that she isnt exactly well lit up! One small red LED high up on her back pack, so when she bends forward it will be hard to see. No high viz and no rear lights on here bike.

 

[ComedyPilot]

All totally avoidable.

As other's have pointed out, the woman's riding left a lot to be desired, the blokes driving likewise (although potentially more grave consequences). The woman tapping on the window got the bloke's back up, and Gaz doing the shining armoured-knight bit pissed him off, as his intent and venom couldn't be vented at his target. 6 of one and half a dozen there.

The second overtake after the verbal handbags was (IMO) malicious, and worthy of a word in his shell by the Met.

 

[marinyork]

Hi Marin, I wouldn't be doing anything but riding on the 'edge', or toward the outside of that 'lane' - perhaps slightly outside it if I thought it was too constricting (as some are.) I always prefer to leave an escape route , inward - in case the scenario we're discussing occurs, regardless of blame etc... If the rider that I am inclined to overtake decides to shift position, I am immediately riding wider. Then I'm mixing it with wider faster vehicles and will reap the consequences - some folk think they own the road.
I make no comment about cycle lanes, apart from I wish they were plain tarmac and defined by a solid line - nothing else.

If the cyclist had knocked off the other cyclist that would be totally their fault and not a great idea. As a lot of these things go it's not really a great idea but people get away with narrow margins. I don't really come across this problem as I'm unlikely to want to overtake some other cyclist on the flat and some people actually think I look behind too often. Nearest I come to this is I ride on the edge of a bus lane because of the dooring and pulling out zone and it doesn't half wind some drivers up. I actually had a cyclist stuck behind me a week back and then I lost him on the incline and we had a chat at the top of the hill.

Cyclists share the road with car drivers, although there's the lane cyclists have as much of a right to overtake a cyclist as a car driver does. I don't necessarily think that on a junction or just after a junction is necessarily the worse place in the world to do it. For exactly the same reasons it isn't the best place in the world to be doing it either.

 

[John Ponting]

Is a driver getting out of their car an act of potential aggression?

Not if they intend to appologise and/or help in some way. Any more than deliberately damaging paintwork or mirrors is anything other than antagonistic. Deliberately causing damage can be prosecuted; getting out of a car cannot.

But i haven't bothered to look at the video and I wasn't there at the time.

 

[lit]

Question 1...is getting out of a car an act of aggression..yes.

Question 2 is tapping on a window an equal act of aggression...yes. (I should know, I've dont both)

I wouldn't neccessarily saying tapping on a window is aggressive - I drive and cycle and if a cyclist thought I had done something wrong in overtaking them I genuinely wouldn't mind them tapping on my window to talk about it, as long as he/she wasn't being abusive etc.

I done this to a driver myself when traffic that I was filtering (on the outside) started moving bit quicker than I expected and I wasn't sure whether to move over left or if she was going to drive through, anyway she went ahead in the end, I tapped on the window, she wound it down, we had a amicable peaceful chat about it, we were both different in opinions, exchanged our views and left it at that.

I've also tapped on a van driver's window (when I was cycling) to let him know he was driving with his hazards on, he first appeared aggressive but when I told him why I'd tapped on the window, he said thanks with a thumbs up and we carried on our journeys.

 

[downfader]

Have only just skim read most of this so apologies if its been cleared up...

Is that the only light she had..? The one on her backpack pointing to the stars? Not ideal if it is, though I accept it could be that her rear light is "drowned out" by the street and other lights..?

The first overtake wasnt anything like the defensive driving he needs in a city like London imvho.. If he drove like that here I can assume that he'll hit another vehicle or street furniture sooner or later. His second pass was imo deliberate and intimidatory, as I said on the youtube comments he prolly assumed he'd got away with it not realising the rear facing cam.

In my experience I find cyclelanes like that impede safer overtaking of fellow cyclists as drivers will come far too close to begin with. On an unmarked regular road drivers often slow down behind you to see what you're up to so you can whiz past other cyclists much easier and safer. Drivers expect you to remain in the confines of the cyclelane and not exit it for any reason....

The CSH scheme could have seriously been improved if they closed off one or two of the CSHs to all non-motorised except buses, taxies, residents and delivery vehicles. Such a radical approach would never be done in the UK though, even if it does stop the jossling and the other problems we all face. I dont think drivers need the shortcuts and the rat runs in reality - as the vehicle is doing the work for them.

EDIT:just remembered something. I knew a scaffolder on our site who had a guy get out of his car like this at him (something to do with the numpty overtaking him forcing him and the scaffold truck into a ditch and hammer his horn). So this bloke has hammered on the brakes and got out shouting at the scaffolder lad. He said "I thought the guy was gonna hit me so I went first" Knocked the guy spark out and phoned the Police.

Apparently this numpty had done it to others and had a history of aggression. Scaffolder got let off the punch as it was self defence but had to go to court as a witness. Dont know what happened to the numpty.

 

[marinyork]

Is a driver getting out of their car an act of potential aggression?

Not if they intend to appologise and/or help in some way. Any more than deliberately damaging paintwork or mirrors is anything other than antagonistic. Deliberately causing damage can be prosecuted; getting out of a car cannot.

But i haven't bothered to look at the video and I wasn't there at the time.

Unfortunately getting out of the car has to be viewed as a hostile act in many circumstances. I know not all drivers intend it as that. It's meant to demonstrate dominance and the ability to easily pounce on your victim. I've had jolly old little men waiting for me at the top of the hill out of their car and although they were totally pleasant although misguided you still have to be careful.

I know you haven't watched the video and I take on board what comedy pilot says but you can see a mile off what this guy's intentions were. Unfortunately recently we were discussing benborp being assaulted. His tactics to distract 'am I being aggressive?' was meant to show seeds of doubt so Gaz let off his guard while he either lamped him or pushed passed him and then preceeded on to his victim. The after bit is just malicious. 3 bits of bad behaviour.