Is a driver getting out of their car an act of potential aggression?

[boydj]

Yes to the original question. It's unlikely any driver would get out of his car to proffer friendly greetings.

The lady may well not have been that well lit, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. She was in the overtake position and holding a fairly steady line well before the car driver started his overtake. He did not move over at all to make account of her presence on or just over the line. You could say her overtake could have been better and her roadcraft leaves a bit to be desired, but it does not excuse the driver. His subsequent chop of the cyclist as he comes inside the line of queuing cars just highlights his lack of consideration for the cyclists.

 

[BentMikey]

Gaz, what was your impression of her lights?

I don't think the rest of us can comment, because cameras don't have the dynamic range of the human eye and thus often leave lights looking quite dim, more than in reality.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

First, thanks for protecting the (female) cyclist from the driver!
I've looked at the vid and my view is OK, she passed the other cyclist close but she was out wide from the lights anyway (although moved in for the motorbike to come past?).

The motorist was into the ASL at the junction as well.

[Didn't have the sound on though]

Onus is on the driver IMO here to not pass if it's not safe. He could have slowed down and/or braked a bit to allow her overtake, but chose not to.

 

[fimm]

I'm not going to add to the discussion of the cycling and driving as I think anything I might add has already been said. However having now seen the video, I have to add that I did feel some sympathy for the driver in the sense that he ended up with 3 cyclists all having a go at him and as someone else has said, didn't really have the opportunity to put his point of view. That does not excuse his very bad driving at the end, though.

 

[Headgardener]

HG's take on this. Yes the lady cyclist and the driver made errors in thier overtaking manoevers but the driver compounded his by then getting out of his vehicle in an aggresive manner with possible intent to do harm to the female cyclist which was prevented by gaz and then attempting to off a totaly innocent cyclist afterwards.

 

[Bollo]

Gaz, what was your impression of her lights?

I don't think the rest of us can comment, because cameras don't have the dynamic range of the human eye and thus often leave lights looking quite dim, more than in reality.

Same occurred to me as well, Mikey. Most cams do some sort of equalisation as well that buggers about with the image contrast, so I agree it'd be difficult to call her lights from the video. Having said that, I've seen some shockers since the clocks went back - lights in name only.

 

[buggi]

The way that I interpreted the situation is that she put herself into a tight position by over taking the other cyclist. The cars position was fine and TBH I don't think that she was justified in her attitude towards the driver. If a driver operated his vehicle with the same aggression that she operates her bike then I think that we would be asking for his licence.

don't agree.

Other viewers may notice that 'the cyclist' comes arrowing into the lane from somewhere to Gaz's right and shows no consideration for the group mentality that should have kicked in, instead of 'I'm overtaking, I'm not signalling and I'm not looking around' attitude that the cyclist displays. An act of potential aggression it could be said...

The proof of the pudding I suppose will be when you definitely see some 'bad cycling' and rush to protect a motorist from an unreasonable cyclist, in similar circumstances. Oh well.

don't agree with this either.

Is there rear footage of the first incident?

Not sure what the people being arsey on this thread are getting at, but it looks like the close passed rider was well into their maneuver and was travelling straight before they passed Gaz.

No idea why people are saying "oh they didn't look and pulled out" when there is no footage of them pulling out.

agree.
After watching it a few times it's plain to see she did not come from "somewhere" to Gaz's right, she was sitting next to him in the ASL when the lights were on red. As the traffic moves off she stays on the edge of the cycle lane intending to overtake the other cyclist, and barely deviates to overtake the cyclist. The driver was intent on passing whether she had deviated those few inches or not, and had she not deviated he still would have been too close. He knew she was there, she was sitting in front of him at the lights and she kept to her line. It's obvious she was going to overtake the cyclist and he was impatient and couldn't be bothered to wait. Had he not seen the other cyclist, and just thought she was riding that line, he was still wrong to pass so close. Doesn't even matter about her dim lights, she had been sitting in front of him in the ASL and he knew it.

Whether she passes the cyclist too close is completely irrelevant.

Just because there is a cycle lane there does not mean we aren't entitled to our 3 foot of clearance. cycle lane or not, cars should be pulling out to give room, not passing close. i have always been taught to ride the line anyway, to force cars to pull out and also to give me room to pull in if they make an error.

Edit: cutting up the other cyclist in your rear view is nothing less than dangerous driving and should be reported. but i think this can be a lesson to us all that if you row with a driver, you only serve to heighten their hatred towards us, even if for only a few minutes, which might result in someone being seriously hurt/dying through their angry recklessness rather than to improve their driving skills.

 

[Norm]

Climbing on my high horse for a second, I think this little scene illustrates why I'm slightly uncomfortable with the shape of London's cycling revolution. There are plenty of people on bikes, but it often appears a bit competitive, self-regarding and f***-you. I can see where it's come from and it some ways it reflects the wider characteristics of London life, but ultimately it's not what will turn London into a genuine cycling city. I agree with 'teef that it's all got to calm down, lighten up and take a little more care of itself.
(Climbs off horse. Gives horse sugar-lump and goes to look up 'pompous' in the dictionary)

Whilst you are up there, Bollo, I'll take this one a step further.

I know many here hold up Copenhagen as an ideal of bikes being taken as part of the road-scape but it cuts both ways. If a car had acted as the female cyclist acted, there would be (IMO) universal condemnation.

Whilst we have cyclists who act as if they don't need to comply with the laws and the accepted practices on the road, we will get people who react like the dicksplash of a driver.

If we want to achieve the shared-space idyll of Copenhagen-on-Thames, we need to change the way we are as cyclists as much as we want drivers to change.

Got any spare lumps of sugar, Bollo, my donkey could do with a nibble too.

 

[400bhp]

cyclist comes into view at 18s -at this point she was outside the cycle lane

at 19s she was just inside the line

car passes at 24 s where she was just outside the line.

Piss poor observation by the car driver.

 

[gaz]

Gaz, what was your impression of her lights?

I don't think the rest of us can comment, because cameras don't have the dynamic range of the human eye and thus often leave lights looking quite dim, more than in reality.

As you rightly say, the camera doesn't give a true representation of her lights.

Her lights need improving, for sure, she needs at least one more red one and it should be on the bike. Was the light she had dim? no, it was a good light, the only problem she has is when she bends over, the light is shining in the sky.

Did it play a part in this?
i wouldn't say so, her reflective panels are being lit up by my flasher. and the street lights at this part are adequate enough that even though she is wearing darkish clothes, you can still see her.

 

[Andrew_P]

I think the biggest issue is that she out sprinted Gaz away from the lights!

 

[dellzeqq]

BM (going back a bit) - I take your point entirely. Big up the Gazzster!

If I'm right about the location then the condition or strength of her lights is neither here nor there. The streetlighting, combined with the amount of reflected light from cars means that there is no visibility problem at all - you can see any stealth cyclist (and there are plenty of them) if they are within 40 metres or so.

But my reservations about the cyclist's positioning remain - know what's behind you and take command of the road.

I do see a criticism of the CS7 paintwork in here. TfL were very straightforward about pointing out that cyclists were not confined to the blue sector, but I'm afraid, with the best will in the world, car drivers will see the blue sector as ours and the not-blue sector as theirs. Such is the level of bicycle traffic on this road that the blue sector is plainly insufficient, and it would be far better to simply turn the 'slow' lane along this stretch in to a bus lane.

 

[Origamist]

It Clapham Common Southside (heading towards Clapham South tube), isn't it Gaz? They changed the road layout when they put the CS in - it used to be two narrow lanes southbound, now it's down to one lane and a cycle lane that is too narrow to facilitate cyclists overtaking/riding two abreast.

The second bit of driving (caught in the rear view cam) was agressive - he was clearly "driving angry" when he squeezed the cyclist towards the kerb.

Oh, you did the right thing stepping in.

Your 1080 Contour def works better in the dark than my GoPro.

 

[BentMikey]

It often amazes me how people impute intention from drivers so easily and without any real evidence. It's happened quite a few times on just this topic already.

I make no conclusions about the driver's second overtake, but if I were to guess, I would say he "carefully" [1] squeezed past that cyclist in much the same way he squeezed past the lady cyclist from the first overtake. The two overtakes are reasonably consistent wrt passing distance, and the second was slightly less reckless than the first which is unsurprising given the telling off and encounter with three other cyclists and a video camera. I suspect he probably has an incorrect idea of how much room a cyclist should be given, and doesn't understand why we'd want more space than he gave.

[1] i.e. in his own mind.

 

[BSRU]

We also have no idea what the female cyclist said to the driver through his passenger window before Gaz managed to catch up .
It could have been something very offensive to make someone leave the safety of their metal box, but who knows.