Is this a real Hobbs Blue Riband?

[rogerzilla]

I bought it as such from a *reasonably* reputable eBay dealer - I have had a very genuine Holdsworth from him before. This turned up today and something isn't right. There is no frame number on the dropouts and the one on the BB (and fork steerer, which matches - 2584 566) is not in any known Hobbs format. The frame weight (minus fork) is prodigious at about 5lb 9oz (for a 22" frame) which suggests plain gauge tubing. Although the paint was claimed to be original, it's clearly been resprayed over some rather pitted tubing. The fork curve doesn't look like Hobbs and the 5/16" lamp boss, gear cable guides and shifter bosses are rather anachronistic. It seems to take a 27.0 seatpost.

On the positive side, the lugs do look rather like a Blue Riband, someone has gone to a lot of effort with the paint and lining (despite the pitting), the mitreing is very good inside the BB shell and the rear dropouts are about right.

Any ideas? Here are some photos.

20190921_175740 by rogerzilla, on Flickr

20190921_175713 by rogerzilla, on Flickr

20190921_175703 by rogerzilla, on Flickr

20190921_175802 by rogerzilla, on Flickr

20190921_175840 by rogerzilla, on Flickr

 

[biggs682]

That bottom bracket is very Claud Butler ish in layout if you ask me

Looks nice though

 

[Cycleops]

I don't know much about Hobbs but those frame numbers seem very suspicious. Would those BB cable guides be correct?

 

[rogerzilla]

They could have been added, but then the paint wouldn't be original. I think biggs682 could be correct - the frame numbers would fit with a 1956 Claud Butler, and CB used that type of lug too.

 

[midlife]

Hobbs finished in 1953 and to my eye that looks quite a bit later.....

 

[rogerzilla]

I'm now 99% sure it's a 1956 low-end CB. A Blue Riband wouldn't be made from gaspipe* and those are bog-standard Prugnat lugs as used by CB.

*I have a Bob Griffin with plain gauge 531 main tubes, slightly larger size, and that's almost half a pound lighter than this!

 

[Cycleops]

So will you be protected under eBay rules for a return and refund?

 

[rogerzilla]

Yes. It's going back. I anticipate pain but eBay generally supports buyers. It was appallingly packaged on its way to me and incurred extra scratches as it was literally falling out of the box - the lady at Sainsbury's (where I collected it) was very worried about the state of it. I suppose it has to go back in the same box, but I did remember to take photos before I opened the packaging.

 

[rogerzilla]

Eventualy got a refund. As slowly as possible - PayPal eCheque, which adds another week. End to end, that took a month, since it took 19 days for the thing to arrive in the first place. I thought "neutral" feedback was pretty generous in the circumstances.

Seller had the temerity to suggest I should ask more questions to ascertain if a frame is genuine. Well, I don't sell vintage frames for a living...he does!

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I thought "neutral" feedback was pretty generous in the circumstances. Seller's feedback is about 95% now, which is circling the drain really; the benchmark for a volume seller is above 99.5%.
Seller had the temerity to suggest I should ask more questions to ascertain if a frame is genuine. Well, I don't sell vintage frames for a living...he does!

I won't even buy a gas pipe 99p special from a seller with poor feedback, because I really can't be arsed with things like poor communication, wasted pick-up journeys etc.
The seller here sounds like a cycling version of Arfur Daley! If he couldn't be 99.9% sure the frame was a genuine Hobbs, by doing his own homework before sale, he should have used the phrase "vintage steel Hobbs replica"
I've bought several good bikes that were listed as "spares or repair" - where the seller has erred on the side of caution by not making claims as to the condition or provenance of a bike, but let the buyer decide if they want to tale a punt. That's honest dealing; misrepresentation whether by ignorance or intent is just not on.

 

[rogerzilla]

It gets worse. The box it came in was too big for Hermes. I asked repeatedly for a postage label and told the seller it was oversize but he refused and said it would be fine to return it in the same box. This was done through eBay messages so there is a record.

Just been surcharged £10.80 by Hermes (although it was delivered successfully 3 weeks ago). I'll have to try and pursue him through eBay. If he refuses I will name and shame so others can avoid the grief.

 

[Cycleops]

A cautionary tale

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Just been surcharged £10.80 by Hermes (although it was delivered successfully 3 weeks ago). I'll have to try and pursue him through eBay. If he refuses I will name and shame so others can avoid the grief.

Name and shame him anyway! He sold you a ringer of a bike, then he's been dragging his feet and messing you around ever since he got rumbled. Sounds like a right chancer who obviously doesn't believe in keeping the customer happy. idiots like that deserve all the bad publicity they get. Never mind though, in the internet age its very easy to dis someone's reputation, and put other customers off doing business with him. That's the way to hit rogues, right in the pocket where it hurts them..

 

[biggs682]

@rogerzilla i hope you get it sorted out soon .
It's not a good situation for sure

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

It's not a good situation for sure

No, it's not good, and I'm glad I have never had a bad experience like that with an eBay bike. Possibly the reason is my purchases are right at the bargain basement / just want to shift this old junk end of the market, so the financial incentive to deceive the buyer just isn't the same. Any misdescription I have encountered has been through ignorance/lack of interest, and has usually actually worked to my advantage not the seller's.