Is this all a cyclists life is worth

Passing sentence Judge Richard Mansell QC said:
"Cyclists take their life in their hands when they go out on just about any road in our country now."


:eek:

That just about sums it up. Too many drivers intoxicated or obsessively distracted by their phones (or both).
 

Alex321

Über Member
Location
South Wales
Delivery driver killed cyclist while high on drugs - BBC News

7 years for killing someone when you're high on drugs and in charge of a vehicle, probably out in less than 4! :angry:
According to the article, he pleaded guilty to Causing Death by Careless driving - for which the maximum sentence is 5 years, so I don't think that is right.

It must have been causing death by dangerous driving (usual sentence range 5-7 years), or he was also given a consecutive sentence for driving under the influence of drugs.

But yes, although the maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving is 14 years, the standard range without significant aggravating or mitigating factors is 5-7 years. It make no difference whether the victim was a cyclist, a pedestrian, or another motorist.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
It's a disgrace. This came about as a result of the drivers deliberate actions and choices.

Cause the death of another through deliberate or wilfully reckless behaviour and you should serve life, if only to protect the rest of us.
 
How long would someone get if the wilfully reckless behaviour that caused the death was not driving connected

For example may a builder taking a massive shortcut with a heavy load which dropped and killed someone??

Is it the same or not??

genuine question - I've often wondered and never got round to finding out
 

numbnuts

Legendary Member
How long would someone get if the wilfully reckless behaviour that caused the death was not driving connected

For example may a builder taking a massive shortcut with a heavy load which dropped and killed someone??

Is it the same or not??

genuine question - I've often wondered and never got round to finding out
From google
The offence of "gross negligence manslaughter" (GNM) is committed where the death is a result of a grossly negligent
 

a.twiddler

Über Member
How can you be four times over the legal limit for cocaine? As an illegal recreational drug there is no therapeutic dose to use as a guideline so any dose is illegal, surely. This suggests that if you drive with a little cocaine in your system that's all right then, if stopped you just get sent on your way, OK matey, take care now. Try not to have a psychotic episode on the way home. And that's before you even consider the cannabis.

On hearing that the driver was actually on bail for drugs offences when this collision occurred makes you think that some people are just too stupid to live. Unfortunately it was the cyclist who died due to this fellow's stupidity. The charge of careless driving sounds like he splashed him while driving through a puddle, or bumped his mirror while passing rather than taking his life with his vehicle while off his head.

A bit of further reading came up with the following.
There is a scale for certain prescribed drugs which might affect your driving following a change in the law to clarify matters in 2015. Prior to this these presciption drugs were lumped together with illegal drugs. The limit for Illegal drugs remains at practically zero.

Alcohol although being a legal drug similarly has no therapeutic dose, but its limits related to driving have been established and enforced for many years.
 

Landsurfer

Über Member
Passing sentence Judge Richard Mansell QC said:
"Cyclists take their life in their hands when they go out on just about any road in our country now."


:eek:

That just about sums it up. Too many drivers intoxicated or obsessively distracted by their phones (or both).
As a Cyclist and Motorcyclist i’ve never been worried about losing my life to a virus .... but I am genuinely worried about a drugged, drunk or phone obsessed HGV, Taxi or School Run Mum taking me out ...!!!
 

Lozz360

Über Member
Location
Oxfordshire
How can you be four times over the legal limit for cocaine? As an illegal recreational drug there is no therapeutic dose to use as a guideline so any dose is illegal, surely. This suggests that if you drive with a little cocaine in your system that's all right then, if stopped you just get sent on your way, OK matey, take care now. Try not to have a psychotic episode on the way home. And that's before you even consider the cannabis.

On hearing that the driver was actually on bail for drugs offences when this collision occurred makes you think that some people are just too stupid to live. Unfortunately it was the cyclist who died due to this fellow's stupidity. The charge of careless driving sounds like he splashed him while driving through a puddle, or bumped his mirror while passing rather than taking his life with his vehicle while off his head.

A bit of further reading came up with the following.
There is a scale for certain prescribed drugs which might affect your driving following a change in the law to clarify matters in 2015. Prior to this these presciption drugs were lumped together with illegal drugs. The limit for Illegal drugs remains at practically zero.

Alcohol although being a legal drug similarly has no therapeutic dose, but its limits related to driving have been established and enforced for many years.
Cocaine is also used as a legal medical treatment. Although I understand it is only used in a clinical setting, so it is unlikely that anyone would be driving around with a prescribed legal dose.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
How can you be four times over the legal limit for cocaine? As an illegal recreational drug there is no therapeutic dose to use as a guideline so any dose is illegal, surely.
I wonder if it was sloppy phrasing and the amount detected was four times the detection error threshold, which might be the level which can be produced by environmental exposure to shoot on banknotes and so on plus maximum expected measurement error.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Passing sentence Judge Richard Mansell QC said:
"Cyclists take their life in their hands when they go out on just about any road in our country now."


:eek:

That just about sums it up. Too many drivers intoxicated or obsessively distracted by their phones (or both).
I rather agree with Michael Hutchinson's take on this on twitter here

The whole "they're taking their life in their hands" narrative is part of why the police and criminal just system don't take it seriously. Cycling is seen as a reckless thing to do, and if bad things happen to you, you shouldn't complain.
 

icowden

Über Member
Location
Surrey
How long would someone get if the wilfully reckless behaviour that caused the death was not driving connected
For example may a builder taking a massive shortcut with a heavy load which dropped and killed someone??
Is it the same or not??
genuine question - I've often wondered and never got round to finding out
For all of these the answer is the same.
The Judge refers to the sentencing guidelines for the offence that the defendant has been found guilty of. He/she then takes into account mitigating and aggravating factors to determine the sentence.

In the UK we have a rehabilitative / restorative justice system. The sentence is less about deterrent and more about rehabilitating the offender / keeping the streets safe. If you want punitive justice, look to the USA who have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Obviously it works really well as the USA is one of the lowest crime countries in the world...

Oh hang on....

The majority of crimes are petty and usually linked to poor education, poor mental health, addiction etc. @Cycleops mentions the woman who deliberately drove the wrong way up the motorway to end her own life and ended up ending the life of a perfectly innocent driver. She pled guilty, she wrote to the Judge specifically, not out of contrition necessarily but to say that she recognised that what she had done was awful and that she deserved any sentence the Judge cared to pass. This will have mitigated her sentence. It won't bring back the deceased or help their family, but equally it doesn't make financial sense to keep someone locked up if they are not a danger to the public. She is likely to be assisted with her mental health.

Sentencing does have a deterrent element but most sentences are not deterrents (see the death penalty in the US, or vast life sentences for minor drug infractions in the same country).

In the case of the guy with drugs in his system, his offence is aggravated by his drugs charge and the fact that he was on drugs. Hence he is now sevrving 11.5 years in prison (from 2020).

He will be eligible for parole after 2/3rds of his sentence is complete, and this will be dependent on his fitness for the same. It should also be noted that being released on Parole is not the same as being released and finishing your sentence. Liberty is still curtailed, he will have regular check ins with his parole officer and certain activities may be restricted. It isn't the walk in the park that the Daily Mail et al would have you believe.

As usual I recommend @thesecretbarrister if you want to learn more about the law, and also how it is broken.
 
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