matticus
Guru
Haha. Citation please??
"Is Wout finished?" thread.
- Thread starter Jameshow
- Start date
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Haha. Citation please??
Dorset Boy
Well-Known Member
- Location
- North Dorset or a mountain
He's a poor man's Pogi or MvdP in one day races, but a superb domestique in the grand tours.
His one day problem has been he's been too scared to lose and so never put in the type of attacks that the other 2 do, and gets marked out of small groups. MvdP and Pogi are willing to lose as it gives them a better chance to win.
His one day problem has been he's been too scared to lose and so never put in the type of attacks that the other 2 do, and gets marked out of small groups. MvdP and Pogi are willing to lose as it gives them a better chance to win.
OP
OP
Jameshow
Veteran
Deffo lacks that killer instinct!
matticus
Guru
To which I'd add that he'd be very welcome as a captain in many (possibly "most"?) pro teams.
M.R.M
Active Member
That's the point in a way. He would be, but he shouldn't be in a way, but he should be in another way.
In most cases he will lose against the true captains. He is invaluable to every team as a domestique, so a must have. Great riders also don't grow on trees, so if you can get one, you have to regardless of their relevancy to captain status.
But his value comes from his domestique ability and not from him being a serial winner like Pogacar or MvdP.
But how many other riders exist who are like Pogacar and MvdP?
So, I'd definitely pick WVA for my cycling dream team.
In most cases he will lose against the true captains. He is invaluable to every team as a domestique, so a must have. Great riders also don't grow on trees, so if you can get one, you have to regardless of their relevancy to captain status.
But his value comes from his domestique ability and not from him being a serial winner like Pogacar or MvdP.
But how many other riders exist who are like Pogacar and MvdP?
So, I'd definitely pick WVA for my cycling dream team.
OP
OP
Jameshow
Veteran
WVA has won 9 tour stages to MVP 1 whilst MVP has won prob double WVAs 9 one day races?
So pretty equal tbh. But is a one day race more prestigious than a tour stage? Probably?
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Time for a bit of lunchtime Wikipedia-ing
If we limit 1 day races to Monuments it's
WVA 1, (really? double checks. Yes, just one)
MvdP 8,
Pog 9.
For Tour stages it's
WVA 10 (and 1 Green jersey),
MvDP 1,
Pog 17 (and 4x White, 2x Mountain, 3x Yellow jerseys)
Then there's the quirky fact that Wout won ITT, mountain and sprint stages on his way to green in '22.
And then there are CX word championships which WVA and MvdP were dominating neck and neck in the late 20-teens but which MvdP has monopolised since. Which was roughly when they both moved into the top rank of road racing. Mathieu kept his CX dominance and Wout didn't.
I'm not going to call WVA and MvdP "pretty even" I think MVDP is ahead there, but Wout's career is still blooming impressive, in a different way and doesn't include wins for his leaders where he has contributed massively.
WvA has also had the misfortune to suffer 3(?) career threatening crashes and comebacks.
Oh, and Pog is on another level.
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No Ta Doctor
Senior Member
While I'm guessing it's a little tongue in cheek to describe Wout as a domestique (though he's undoubtedly incredible in that role) I think we should give the man a little more credit for his one day record. It's distinctly uncharitable to compare him too harshly with Pog and MvdP, given that they're both in the all time top eight monuments winners by total. Both Wout and Mads P would have a monument or two more if those two weren't around, unfortunate timing.
In the other one dayers, Wout has won pretty much all of those run in the spring. Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne, Strade Bianche, E3 (twice), Gent-Wevelgem and Amstel (unless you ask Pidcock). That's not a domestique palmares.
In the other one dayers, Wout has won pretty much all of those run in the spring. Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne, Strade Bianche, E3 (twice), Gent-Wevelgem and Amstel (unless you ask Pidcock). That's not a domestique palmares.
N0bodyOfTheGoat
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Hampshire, UK
Since Vin became a TDF GC contender, WVA has become his joker card, but in most teams outside UAE and Jumbo (and maybe Alpecin) I'd expect WVA to be used differently.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Not forgetting that he generously donated another victory in Gent Wevelgem to his team-mate Christophe Laporte a couple of years ago (much to Eddy Merckx's disgust)
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Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
And Mathieu van der Poel will probably be remembered as one of cycling's great lead-out riders after his great work for Jasper Phillipsen.
Please, my take. It's so hot.
OP
OP
Jameshow
Veteran
Time for a bit of lunchtime Wikipedia-ing
If we limit 1 day races to Monuments it's
WVA 1, (really? double checks. Yes, just one)
MvdP 8,
Pog 9.
For Tour stages it's
WVA 10 (and 1 Green jersey),
MvDP 1,
Pog 17 (and 4x White, 2x Mountain, 3x Yellow jerseys)
Then there's the quirky fact that Wout won ITT, mountain and sprint stages on his way to green in '22.
And then there are CX word championships which WVA and MvdP were dominating neck and neck in the late 20-teens but which MvdP has monopolised since. Which was roughly when they both moved into the top rank of road racing. Mathieu kept his CX dominance and Wout didn't.
I'm not going to call WVA and MvdP "pretty even" I think MVDP is ahead there, but Wout's career is still blooming impressive, in a different way and doesn't include wins for his leaders where he has contributed massively.
WvA has also had the misfortune to suffer 3(?) career threatening crashes and comebacks.
Oh, and Pog is on another level.
Good deep dive!👍
OP
OP
Jameshow
Veteran
And Mathieu van der Poel will probably be remembered as one of cycling's great lead-out riders after his great work for Jasper Phillipsen.
But WVA would give Jasper a run for his money!🤣
