"Is Wout finished?" thread.

[Dogtrousers]

Sorry, once I start wikipedia-ing I can't stop.

Here's a breakdown of non-monument classicy type things with a bias towards ones unpronouncable Flemish names so there are probably some fine French and Italian races that I should have included but didn't

Race	WVA	MVDP	Pog
Amstel Gold	1​	1​	1​
Brabantse Pijl		1​
Dwars Door Vlaanderen		2​
E3	2​	2​
Gent Wevelgem	1​
Kuurne Brussels Kuurne	1​
La Fleche Wallonne			2​
Omloop Het Niewsblad	1​
Scheldeprijs
Strade Bianchi	1​	1​	3​

 

[matticus]

Not forgetting that he generously donated another victory in Gent Wevelgem to his team-mate Christophe Laporte a couple of years ago (much to Eddy Merckx's disgust)

You see? No killer instinct!

 

[phreak]

He always seems to get viewed more positively than Sagan, despite the latter winning an extra monument, 3x world road races, and a comparable number of stages/green jerseys/classics.

 

[Dogtrousers]

He always seems to get viewed more positively than Sagan, despite the latter winning an extra monument, 3x world road races, and a comparable number of stages/green jerseys/classics.

By whom? Sagan was brilliant. As his wardrobe of green jerseys attests.

 

[Supersuperleeds]

If he hasn't finished yet, I hope he has lights on his bike, it's starting to get dark.

 

[stage hunter]

But as your forum name goes he's won plenty of stages since then...🤔👍

Fair enough. I wasn’t especially offering an opinion as it’s hard question to answer. You can’t forget his domination of the 2021 tour first 10 days.

Time for a bit of lunchtime Wikipedia-ing

If we limit 1 day races to Monuments it's
WVA 1, (really? double checks. Yes, just one)
MvdP 8,
Pog 9.

For Tour stages it's
WVA 10 (and 1 Green jersey),
MvDP 1,
Pog 17 (and 4x White, 2x Mountain, 3x Yellow jerseys)

Then there's the quirky fact that Wout won ITT, mountain and sprint stages on his way to green in '22.

And then there are CX word championships which WVA and MvdP were dominating neck and neck in the late 20-teens but which MvdP has monopolised since. Which was roughly when they both moved into the top rank of road racing. Mathieu kept his CX dominance and Wout didn't.

I'm not going to call WVA and MvdP "pretty even" I think MVDP is ahead there, but Wout's career is still blooming impressive, in a different way and doesn't include wins for his leaders where he has contributed massively.

WvA has also had the misfortune to suffer 3(?) career threatening crashes and comebacks.

Oh, and Pog is on another level.

Those 17 monuments for POgG and MVDP have come after WVA’s monument too.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Those 17 monuments for POgG and MVDP have come after WVA’s monument too.

You do get a bit of a sense of unfulfilled promise don't you? Even hough his palmares is not exactly unimpressive.

We expect so much. He still has time, but he must stop crashing and mangling his body.

I was surprised he only had one monument, because I could remember him winning various one day races but they turned out not to be monuments.

 

[matticus]

He always seems to get viewed more positively than Sagan, despite the latter winning an extra monument, 3x world road races, and a comparable number of stages/green jerseys/classics.

hard to believe he [Sagan] only won two monuments! (although they were good ones.)
A great character, that's for sure.

 

[phreak]

By whom? Sagan was brilliant. As his wardrobe of green jerseys attests.

Maybe not any more, but for a long time Wout was spoken about as a peer of MvdP, whereas I don't think Sagan was ever really spoken of in the Cancellara/Boonen bracket, and he certainly wasn't eulogised as an all-round god that any team would be glad to have in their GT squad.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

Sagan was often a marked man after his world champ success, shame he suffered performance loss after covid infection (or was it vaccine complications?).

Is Wout often a marked man these days too? Or is he simply surrounded by better all rounders including Pog; Vin; Evenpoel; MVDP etc.?

 

[M.R.M]

Maybe not any more, but for a long time Wout was spoken about as a peer of MvdP, whereas I don't think Sagan was ever really spoken of in the Cancellara/Boonen bracket, and he certainly wasn't eulogised as an all-round god that any team would be glad to have in their GT squad.

Because Sagan was not as useful as WVA is for a GT squad. Boonen -> Sagan -> MvdP is a more linear progression. MvdP would probably be able to win some green jerseys if he cared enough.

 

[phreak]

Because Sagan was not as useful as WVA is for a GT squad. Boonen -> Sagan -> MvdP is a more linear progression. MvdP would probably be able to win some green jerseys if he cared enough.

Unlike Wout, Sagan actually won a few stage races so I reckon he could have done a job, it was just that he was seldom on a team that demanded it.

 

[TakeTheHighRoad]

Because Sagan was not as useful as WVA is for a GT squad. Boonen -> Sagan -> MvdP is a more linear progression. MvdP would probably be able to win some green jerseys if he cared enough.

MVDP will be favourite for the Green this year if he goes for it. The points given to various stages which suit his capabilities seem to suggest ASO are encouraging him to go for it

 

[No Ta Doctor]

MVDP will be favourite for the Green this year if he goes for it. The points given to various stages which suit his capabilities seem to suggest ASO are encouraging him to go for it

That's a bold statement about someone who has never won a WT level points classification and has as many DNF/DNSs as stage wins in grand tours (2)

I appreciate he's more recently been put into the service of Philipsen and that's limited his chances, but he appears to lack the GT stamina/recuperation to mount a three week challenge. He's also still got Philipsen to lead out this year.

As for his competition on days where it might go to a break or have a non-boulevard sprint, there's van Aert, Girmay, Milan, Nys, Magnus Cort - and if he gets it together, De Lie. On his own team there's Kaden Groves who quite likes a hard finish.

The sprinters picking up points in the genuine sprint stages are likely to be Philipsen, Milan, Merlier and maybe Girmay picking up some placings. Van Aert is likely to mix it up here too, even without a train.

So favourite for green is definitely an optimistic assessment.

 

[TakeTheHighRoad]

He's literally just tied for the Green Jersey in the Dauphine, only losing out to Pog on stage wins. I think it's a pretty bold statement to denounce MVDP and quoting de Lie as an alternative. As takes go, that's a pretty hot one