It´s not about the bike

[yello]

Imho, a couple of things strike me there;

1) Armstrong will never admit - even if the worst is true, I suspect he has some means of justifying it and genuinely does not believe he has done anything 'wrong'

2) Landis has been corroborated - or rather he has corroborated others. The stories have been out there for some time.... "credible" is a personal call.

Please believe me here, I genuinely feel for the people (perhaps like you Silver Fox) that believe in Armstrong. What were the words Armstrong used... dared to believe in miracles? Because I think such people will be hurt when he falls. And I do believe that is what is going to happen. I wouldn't even be surprised if he spends time behind bars.

And where I think Armstrong will fall is that he won't admit, he won't 'cut a deal'. I think Novistky is going to collect all the evidence he can, over a range of subjects and from a wide range of sources THEN formally interview Armstrong. Armstrong will lie under oath (over something, some seemingly irrelevant detail) and from there on it'll be damage limitation for him. I don't think Armstrong will be done for doping, as I said before the Novitsky remit is broader than that, but I think he'll be discredited sufficiently for few (or certainly fewer) to believe in the miracle.
The 7 TdF wins will stay on the record books, he'll not be stripped of them.... but the era will just become 'The Doping Years'.

 

[cameramanjim]

Matt Rendell gives out some interesting data but it's immersed in an, entirely unjustified, belief in his own writing abilities.

I´m quite enjoying Jeff´s Pantani bio. Yes, he gets a bit flowery and there´s a fair bit of perhaps unnecessary historical and sociological detail , but I find the padding fairly interesting.
PS Your ´entirely unjustified´ sub clause doesn´t require the commas.
CMJ (Jeff´s mate)

 

[MacB]

I´m quite enjoying Jeff´s Pantani bio. Yes, he gets a bit flowery and there´s a fair bit of perhaps unnecessary historical and sociological detail , but I find the padding fairly interesting.
PS Your ´entirely unjustified´ sub clause doesn´t require the commas.
CMJ (Jeff´s mate)

I'm glad you're enjoying something though not sure the punctuation jibe helps your point, hilarious as it may be.

 

[Dan B]

Since we're on the subject, my favourite cycling read (not that I've read anything other than a few!) was probably 'In Search of Robert Miller',

Yes, I found that interesting. Also "Push Yourself Just A Little Bit More: Backstage at Le Tour de France" by Johnny Green: the writing is awful, but (as you might expect from the Clash's former road manager) the attitude towards doping is a bit more relaxed and less po-faced than most cycling commentators :-)

 

[cameramanjim]

the attitude towards doping is a bit more relaxed and less po-faced than most cycling commentators :-)

He used to be called Johnny Greenglasses, by the Clash, and was a mate of my old friend Mickey Foote (former Clash and 101´ers soundman).

Happy days.

 

[ventoux50]

I'll admit to being a fan of Lance, I reckon his single minded determination to be the best, to beat cancer, and to be the figurehead behind a charity raising millions for cancer sufferers sets him out as an exceptional individual.

Unfortunately he's been in a game where the microscope is bound to fall on all involved to some degree.

I admit that I find it difficult to believe that he achieved his 7 victories without chemical/medical intervention, just because the feat is so incredible, however, he was also surrounded by a team of the strongest riders, and always had that steely determination to win.

If it is ever proven that he did submit to doping of some nature then I will be very disappointed, (I have been by other fallen 'heroes' over the years)
However, to give any creedence to a total wierdo like Landis is not indicative of Armstrong's guilt, rather of Landis' childlike tantrum after being proved beyond doubt that HE was a cheat.

I hope Lance is clean, only time will tell, but either way there is no denying his committment to the sport and the cancer community.



btw . . . the best cycling book has to be Bradley Wiggins - In Pursuit of Glory

 

[zacklaws]

I don't normally enter this type of debate, but whilst staggering home in the freezing cold from the pub a few nights ago, it crossed my mind, that if the Tour de France was every 4 years, like the Olympics, then at the most Lance would only have won 1 or 2 tours, which seems a realistic number for someone at the top of there sport. This then makes him similar to those competitors in the Olympics who can succesfully defend there Gold medals in the same event over 2 olympic meets, as to be able to do so, makes them great sportsmen in their own league. If the Olympics was held every year, then we might see similar to what Lance did with other athletes, one person dominating for a few consecutive years at one event and racking up a few Golds.

 

[dellzeqq]

it most definitely is about the bike... http://fnrttc.blogsp...about-bike.html

 

[yello]

Tsk tsk, shameless self-publicity (if the link worked!).... Armstrong would be proud!

re zacklaws....

If the Olympics was held every year, then we might see similar to what Lance did with other athletes, one person dominating for a few consecutive years at one event and racking up a few Golds.

Yes, I suspect so. Consider also that Mark Spitz won 7 golds in 1972, and Michael Phelps 8 in 2008. In a sense, the actual count is immaterial - one could count yellow jerseys, stage wins, whatever. I think, in short, it's an achievement regardless of the means of tally marking used. The important thing is that all competitors are scored equally, and that they are are competing equally.

 

[gb155]

Imho, a couple of things strike me there;

1) Armstrong will never admit - even if the worst is true, I suspect he has some means of justifying it and genuinely does not believe he has done anything 'wrong'

2) Landis has been corroborated - or rather he has corroborated others. The stories have been out there for some time.... "credible" is a personal call.

Please believe me here, I genuinely feel for the people (perhaps like you Silver Fox) that believe in Armstrong. What were the words Armstrong used... dared to believe in miracles? Because I think such people will be hurt when he falls. And I do believe that is what is going to happen. I wouldn't even be surprised if he spends time behind bars.

And where I think Armstrong will fall is that he won't admit, he won't 'cut a deal'. I think Novistky is going to collect all the evidence he can, over a range of subjects and from a wide range of sources THEN formally interview Armstrong. Armstrong will lie under oath (over something, some seemingly irrelevant detail) and from there on it'll be damage limitation for him. I don't think Armstrong will be done for doping, as I said before the Novitsky remit is broader than that, but I think he'll be discredited sufficiently for few (or certainly fewer) to believe in the miracle.
The 7 TdF wins will stay on the record books, he'll not be stripped of them.... but the era will just become 'The Doping Years'.

I looked at that, at 39 stone and thought to myself......Miracles CAN happen, lets be honest, who would have thought, with no pills, weight loss surgery or anything other than a bike or 2 that a normal bloke from up north could LOSE 25 stone ? and lose Diabetes, Lose High Blood Pressure Lose Sleep Apnia ?????? Maybe just maybe.....Miracles CAN happen ???? !!!!

 

[yello]

Well done on your weight loss gb155, and the related health benefits it has brought you.

Give yourself more credit though. It's not a 'miracle', it was YOU that made it happen.

 

[gb155]

Well done on your weight loss gb155, and the related health benefits it has brought you.

Give yourself more credit though. It's not a 'miracle', it was YOU that made it happen.

For sure, it was me that put the effort in, that turned the cranks that got back up after injury's, accidents, illnesses etc

BUT

What made me do that ? The last time I wasn't obese I was 16, so i'd gone 12 years of being obese, morbidly obese and then Super morbidly obese, so why change, what made me believe I could lose 25 stone ?

We all have to have something to believe in ......

 

[yello]

What made me do that?

what made me believe I could lose 25 stone?

You did and you did.

Seriously, there's no miracle to it is there?

I think you're talking about taking inspiration from someone and that's something different. It's the individual that takes the steps, or turns the pedals. Motivation and science - no miracle.

 

[vernon]

You did and you did.

Seriously, there's no miracle to it is there?

I think you're talking about taking inspiration from someone and that's something different. It's the individual that takes the steps, or turns the pedals. Motivation and science - no miracle.

I agree. The loss is down to focused effort and hats off to gbb.

I've often joked with a rather thin colleague that I could do with losing his bodyweight to be at a healthy weight and to think that gbb has lost my bodyweight is amazing.

I'm just embarking on a weight loss regime with a more modest target. I'll not attribute any loss to miracles unless it happens without a change in diet and lifestyle.

 

[zigzag]

For sure, it was me that put the effort in, that turned the cranks that got back up after injury's, accidents, illnesses etc

BUT

What made me do that ? The last time I wasn't obese I was 16, so i'd gone 12 years of being obese, morbidly obese and then Super morbidly obese, so why change, what made me believe I could lose 25 stone ?

We all have to have something to believe in ......

lots of respect gb155, i've seen your videos and read some posts. however i would disagree about the miracle part. from what i see is that you got fed up with your previous body, it gave you huge discomfort and you've decided enough is enough and took action. to lose that much weight in one year is an astonishing result, but i still see no miracles there. in a nutshell all diets are the same, eat less (and healthy) and excercise more. why it took 12 years to realise that the change is needed - i don't know. what matters is that the change has happened and you motivated so many people to take similar action!

(... so now start training for LEL 2013? )