Just need to vent a little - van driver problems today

[Custom24]

A van driver ran over one of the bikes I test rode today!

I was test riding it. She passed me going the other way in a quiet road in her van. I then turned around in the road, to see her reverse light come on and her reversing towards me quite quickly. I was about 3 metres away but she was going too quickly. I had time to shout stop, stop, stop and jump off the bike onto the pavement. Unfortunately, not enough time to get the bike out of the way and she ran partially over the rear wheel.

Actually and unbelievably, the damage was somehow only cosmetic. A few scratches and dings on the rim and frame. But this was a brand new bike, and not even mine.

What pissed me off was her attitude, which was basically that she didn't see me, so what, and that she was in a hurry and had to get on with her deliveries, and that there was "no damage", so stop making a big deal out of it. The point that she'd nearly hurt me seemed to her irrelevant.

I can understand how a driver of such a van, without any rear windows, could end up doing this. She said that when she checked her mirrors, I wasn't there. But that's not good enough really, and I'm not sure she even looked because although it happened quite quickly, she would have seen me.

Because she was initially talking about just driving off without giving me her details, I called the police. I said that we didn't need to involve the police if she would just come with to the bike shop to let them decide if the bike was damaged or not, but at that point her story was that I might be a rapist and that she was in too much of a hurry. The bike shop was in the middle of Oxford and only about 50 metres away.

In the end a friendly PCSO turned up and she eventually gave me her details which I passed on to the bike shop.

I have to say Jason at Beeline bikes was really good about it, and is a top bloke from this and previous experience.

About the only good that came out of it was a resolve on my part to be more careful when checking my own mirrors, although I already am.

I might still buy the bike, because I quite liked it, but I was quite shaken by the row over this.

Thanks for listening

Mark

 

[Cycling Dan]

Maybe looks cosmetic but with a van running over it I suspect the back of the bike is farked.

 

[Custom24]

No, I don't think so. I didn't describe it very well. It was just the rim, and it must just have been under the edge of the tyre on her van, rather than the whole wheel, and she stopped kind of on the wheel, rather than having run over it completely.

The rim was still miraculously true. Anyway, I hope the bike shop pursue it with her insurers. They have my details as well.

I got the impression that even if she'd totalled the bike, or even hurt me, she wouldn't have cared particularly.

 

[Colin B]

I've had people park right up my arse while parked and I mean right up and hit em in reverse . So my question is could you see her mirrors before she hit you if not the she couldnt see you . I'm not sticking up for her here because if she reversed so fast you couldn't move then she's going pretty quick what size van was it BTW

 

[Custom24]

It was a smallish van, but bigger than a car derived van, a Citan by Mercedes, I think.

It was a kind of weird one in terms of the mirrors. It's a narrow road. I was originally going the other way to her. What happened was I did a U turn, probably when either she'd "already" checked her mirrors or when she was looking maybe at the left kerb to avoid kerbing, I don't know. All I know is that when I decided to turn around in the road, at that point in time, she was travelling in the opposite direction to me, so I had no reason to suspect a sudden reversing. I'd shoulder checked, obviously.

It was the speed of her reverse which caused the problem, and I guess the fact that I decided to do a U turn at the same time or just before she decided to reverse. I can't even remember why she was reversing - there wasn't really any reason to. I guess she'd say the same about what I did - she didn't know I was testing the bike.

Plus the fact that her van didn't have rear windows. What's with that?

I'm prepared to accept it may have been partially my fault, but I can't see what I did specifically wrong or what I might do differently in future. I guess leave more space and not assume vehicles will remain travelling in their apparent direction.

 

[Globalti]

Where is the bike now? The shop people won't do anything about the insurance, that's not their job. If you need a new rim you will need to claim off her insurance.

Speaking as a former van driver I can tell you that her behaviour was completely normal; delivery drivers must be the most stressed on the road and they will try any trick in the book to get their drops done so that they can get home on time. At the end of the day you'll see them parked in laybys so they don't get back to the depot so early that the boss gives them another job.

 

[Cuchilo]

I see this as a massive problem with my van . The lack of rear windows is a bonus security wise as thieves cant pop the window out and nick my tools ( again ) but not being able to see behind is horrible and other people don't realise that you just cant see them .
The first time I realised this was parked when a police bike pulled up behind me . I had walked around the back of the van and got in the drivers side . The bay I was in only takes one and a half cars . Or a van and a police bike Anyway , im sorry the story doesn't get better but I just saw the tyre of the bike as I was reversing .
Its also a massive problem reversing out onto a road as you can see the traffic while you are at 90* to it out of the passenger window but as soon as you start to turn you are totally blind . Even with hazard lights on people still try to squeeze around you at 30mph .

 

[MikeG]

...... her van didn't have rear windows. What's with that?.......

That is incredibly common, and perfectly legal. In fact, it is legal in a car. So long as the vehicle has two rear view mirrors (presumably 2 wing mirrors in this case) then not being able to see out of the back of the vehicle isn't a legal issue. Given the amount of stuff stolen out of vans, not having glass, (which enables thieves to see the contents), is a very important part of vehicle security.

Mike

 

[Custom24]

Yep I take the point that it's legal and for vehicle security.

I guess having reverse sensors of a camera might help. I didn't notice if her vehicle had either of those. I doubt it would have had a camera, but it may well have had reverse sensors, which she may well have ignored.

 

[benb]

What a terrible attitude she has.

 

[Dan B]

Good to hear that Beeline are still there. I bought a bike there in 1994, which I'd like to say I still have but unfortunately it got nicked a couple of years ago

 

[sidevalve]

Sorry to spoil the lets have ago at the vehicle law bit but no there is no requirement for a rear window in a van and there never has been/will be. Again the point boils down to you doing a U turn how close ? You found yourself 3 mtr away so I'm sorry but it seems BOTH of you assumed the road would be clear after passing the other. At 3 mtr you are so close that you would easily be invisible - mirrors or no mirrors.
Yes her attitude was crap BUT you assumed all would be safe - it wasn't. Yes her check in the mirrors wasn't good enough but be 100% honest was your glance over the shoulder [I assume you looked] enought to make absolutely [and I do mean absolutely] sure everything was ok before you made your manouver ? After all a U turn is a bit more drastic than a left turn. Resposibility goes both ways. Again sorry to upset the "cyclists are perfect" brigade [and I expect a lot of flak for this post].
Glad you and the bike are OK but if you swap the words bike and van over in the OP I suspect a very different set of replies would emerge.

 

[fossyant]

Us cyclists are lowlife gutter trash, so this attitude is quite common.

 

[Dan B]

I don't think anyone,least of all the OP, has suggested that cyclists are perfect. And if you swap the words 'bike' and 'van' over in the OP it would make no sense at all because bikes don't (at least as a rule) have reverse gears or any need for rear windows.

 

[Custom24]

Sorry to spoil the lets have ago at the vehicle law bit but no there is no requirement for a rear window in a van and there never has been/will be. Again the point boils down to you doing a U turn how close ? You found yourself 3 mtr away so I'm sorry but it seems BOTH of you assumed the road would be clear after passing the other. At 3 mtr you are so close that you would easily be invisible - mirrors or no mirrors.
Yes her attitude was crap BUT you assumed all would be safe - it wasn't. Yes her check in the mirrors wasn't good enough but be 100% honest was your glance over the shoulder [I assume you looked] enought to make absolutely [and I do mean absolutely] sure everything was ok before you made your manouver ? After all a U turn is a bit more drastic than a left turn. Resposibility goes both ways. Again sorry to upset the "cyclists are perfect" brigade [and I expect a lot of flak for this post].
Glad you and the bike are OK but if you swap the words bike and van over in the OP I suspect a very different set of replies would emerge.

You are correct in all of the above. I've already identified that I must learn not to assume things will remain as they seem, in an earlier post of mine in the thread, above. It's not easy, though...

I don't know the exact distance - it was probably more than 3 metres, more like 6 metres, or even more, thinking about it again.

The only thing you miss from your analysis is the speed of the reverse maneouvre. When I reverse my car, I do so slowly and carefully. This wasn't the case here. She reversed quickly and therefore not carefully. If I had a vehicle with no rear windows and nothing else to help me reverse, I would reverse very slowly and very carefully.

The crux of it is that we are here having a discussion about what I could have done differently. I am used to thinking like this when I drive as well, so that's good and welcome.

What's not good is that I'm pretty sure she is not having any similar thoughts. At one stage, with the PCSO present, and the driver denying that she'd run over the bike at all, because the wheel would be buckled if she had, I said to the driver

"I just want you to take some responsibility for what happened and for your driving"

Her reply was exasperated

"But there's no damage. If I'd hurt you or the bike, I'd take responsibility, but there's no damage. No damage (repeat 10 times as I try again to point out this is for the bike shop to decide). I think you are just trying it on. How do I know you didn't just put the bike there?"

You can't reason with that attitude and level of reality denial, which left me quite deflated.