KoolStop Salmons problems

[Jon2]

In all the wet weather we've had recently i started to really notice the lack of braking power i had. My bike had Ultegra front brake and Rival rear, both with the standard pads they come with. They gave me more than enough braking power in the dry, but i had a few scary moments in the wet.

After seeing several people on here recommending the KoolStop Salmon pads I ordered two pairs. First time out i was pretty unimpressed, but i put it down to needing bed in. I've now done over 100 miles with them, and they've been performing pretty well. Today was the first really wet day to test them properly, and to be completely honest, they were useless. I could pull both levers right to the bars, and still be happily moving forward. If anything, they were worse than the original pads.

I'm assuming this isn't normal for the salmons, is it just that i need to wait longer for them to bed in? It's on Shimano RS30 wheels if it makes a difference.

 

[HovR]

You're able to pull the brake levers right to the bars? That isn't right - Sounds like the brake pads aren't running close enough to the rim, so you'll be losing out on some braking power.

Also I'd say that your technique for wet weather riding is just as important as your choice of brake pads. You really do have to be watching the road ahead and anticipating when you'll need to brake. Before you need to brake squeeze the brake lever enough to let the pads gently contact the rim for a few revolutions to clear excess water off, and then you can apply the brakes properly.

It can also be beneficial to clear the rims after riding through large puddles which may soak the rims.

 

[Jon2]

The pads are a funny shape, having a lip at one end which prevents the pads from being too close to the rim. They were set as close to the rim as i could get them without rubbing.
http://www.koolstop.com/english/dura_type.html
My rear wheel has a slight buckle in it, which amplifies the problem, but it's the front I'm more worried about.

For my riding technique, i had a lot of practice of looking ahead today, and I'm sure I'll have plenty of rain this week to try clearing the rims first.

 

[biggs682]

Jon2 i have only used koolstops on older retro bikes and wheels and no bedding in required

 

[Norm]

If you can get the levers back to the bars, I think there is a problem which is nothing to do with the pads.

 

[ttcycle]

If your wheel isn't true...there's an issue there.

However, did you install them the correct way round? iirc on my Koolstops there was a left and a right. They should fit snugly into the holders - if not they're either in the wrong way or it doesn't fit your pad holders.

 

[Jon2]

In case it wasn't clear, the front wheel is perfectly true, and I still have problems with braking. I'll check how far from the rim the pads are in the morning and see if i can get them any closer. That lip might have worn away by now.

They are left and right specific, and they fitted into my pad holders perfectly. The lip is part of the pad, and not caused by anything else.

The rear wheel isn't quite true and i do realise this will cause problems as I can't have the pads as close to the rim as they should be.

People who use them, are you able to lock the back wheel in heavy rain? Should i be expecting that much braking power from them?

 

[endoman]

I rode Etape 2 with Salmons this year, doesn't get much wetter or more brake intensive than that. Had no problem at all, still on same pads, never locked a wheel, don't try to either. As others have said something is wrong with your set up if you can get lever to bar, mine is nowhere near reaching. Probably have about 2mm gap with mine,

 

[ttcycle]

The lip is a design feature supposedly to clean grit and excess fluid off the pad to enable it to brake more effectively, apparently.

Something doesn't sound right - can you pop some photos up on the thread?

 

[Deleted member 1258]

In case it wasn't clear, the front wheel is perfectly true, and I still have problems with braking. I'll check how far from the rim the pads are in the morning and see if i can get them any closer. That lip might have worn away by now.

They are left and right specific, and they fitted into my pad holders perfectly. The lip is part of the pad, and not caused by anything else.

The rear wheel isn't quite true and i do realise this will cause problems as I can't have the pads as close to the rim as they should be.

People who use them, are you able to lock the back wheel in heavy rain? Should i be expecting that much braking power from them?

I'm using the Koolstop salmon continentals

http://www.simpsoncycles.co.uk/product.php/954/kool_stop_continental

I've been running them for several years and they have been great. As for locking the back in the wet, I wouldn't try, in the dry under emergency stop conditions I'll have the back of the bike in the air before I lock the back up.
Sounds like theres something wrong with your set up, in the wet you may get a very slight pause before the brake bites, as its clearing water off the rims, then it should just bite.

 

[sidevalve]

As above, if the lever goes back to the bars and you have the pads close enough to the wheel either something is stretching or bending. Try pulling the brakes on and watching whats happening, once the pads are firmly on the rim there shouldn't be much more movement. Check for any kinks in the cable or frayed strands. Even with my old side caliper set up once the brakes are on thats it, the levers stop moving.

 

[Jon2]

Ok, Had another look at i when i got home today.

The lips on the pad i mentioned have worn away, it was mentioned earlier here, and also on the Koolstop website that this is meant to clear the rims for braking. Can anyone here explain how that is meant to happen when the pads have been used for 100 miles and it's worn away? I'm assuming that the pads are meant to be set parallel with the rims, ignoring the lip. The lip will hit the rim first, so wearing quickest, it will also have the most pressure on it, so wearing quickest. It seems like whoever designed this didn't think it through at all. As it happens one of the front pads wasn't quite parallel to the rim, I'm gonna blame the lip for making it hard to adjust. I've now moved the pads closer to the rim.

As for pulling the lever, I can still pull it to the bar, it's not easy from the hoods, but in the drops it just takes a good squeeze. I haven't had a chance to test how much braking power this gives since the adjustments though. Forecast says I'm getting rain on Thursday, so I should be able to test it properly then. I had a look for anything bending or that isn't quite right. I pull the lever and the pads hit the rim. Pulling harder closes the gap between the outer cable stop and the cable clamp, i think this is to be expected? The caliper does not appear to be bending, I'm reasonably sure it's the pads being squashed.

 

[ttcycle]

Apparently those lips are supposed to make contact with the rim and push off excess water/dirt- the salmon pad is softish but it is quick to wear down.

What are your expectations with this braking? If you're expecting it to fully stop dead if you're going fast that may be a bit unrealistic? I can't see that they're not toed in and assuming that the tension in the cable is correct, I don't know...someone else may have further input though

 

[Jon2]

I'll think about i more carefully while I'm riding tomorrow and what I'm expecting the brakes to do. I think the pads have been fine in the dry, it was the wet weather performance that worried me. I'm not expecting them to the same in wet and dry, but i thought i could expect them to be better than the standard pads i had. The ultegra pads in particular seemed to be a very hard rubber. Could you give me any idea of how powerful these should be in wet vs dry conditions? I've had some very nervous and slow rides recently because my stopping distance must be a good 4 times further than in the dry.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

One thing about the pics that confuses me - if all the grey/black stuff on the pads is brake dust why isn't it salmon coloured? Maybe your rims could do with a good cleaning - that might improve things.

I just put the same pads on my bike yesterday and, though it was dry, they seemed pretty responsive from the off. I'll wait until the rain catches me before I try them in the wet.