Ladies road bike

[velovoice]

It would, indeed, be nice to know that there is still room for ethical behaviour in this topsy-turvy world!

Ethics do come into it, but I'm not taking the moral high ground here.

It's economics. Far too few people appreciate the "bundled" services they get along with the goods they buy, which is not listed as a break down on their receipt.

It's not just overheads, mark ups, profit margins - although those are of course intrinsic costs for a bricks and mortar shop. The point is, LBSs provide something that is not simply an optional extra (although you can of course 'opt out' and say 'no thanks' when someone approaches and asks if they can help). It's something else, something separate. And it's worth recognising that, even when we don't need it.

Unbundling the provision of services from the sale of goods reveals a crucial part of our economy -- and, to be honest, human nature.

I didn't intend to hijack the OP. I can't recommend any NW Kent bike shops -- @ianrauk and @vickster has already covered that. I do hope the links I've posted may help de-mystify the industry's approach to sizing, though. @hepburn, do let us know how you get on.

 

[Cyclist33]

Whilst I don't 100% disagree with your sentiments, I do think it is a "fact" (in that it can't be proved or disproved any more than its opposing view) that there are as many terrible local bike shops with bad mechanics, inflated prices and an ethic of let's get what we can from Joe Customer, as there are good ones with the right objectives and intentions.

Yet even recognising the non-monetary value of shopping locally, there is often going to be a limit (it will be personal and based on the consumer's circumstances). One example is, I will never buy an Elite Custom Race bottle cage from my LBS because they want £12.99 whereas other stores and online they cost half that. Likewise if my local shop wants to sell me a hybrid for £400 that I can buy elsewhere for £300, for me that's a no-brainer, I'm going to take the cheaper option. My local shop will still get all my servicing requirements and they will sell enough high-end stuff to remain a going concern.

I don't think it is fair to criticise a consumer for making these choices - this isn't a society where we should forced to "go local" at any cost. I lament the lack of local butchers but to be fair the supermarkets around me have very good meat counters these days and the standards of hygiene are considerably higher.

Lastly (and here I suppose we need someone who is as keen to do the full economic appraisal as Yellow Saddle was to do the wheel maths) I must re-emphasise that local shops often put a huge markup on items and they often market themselves to appeal to a certain demographic, but that doesn't actually mean their goods or services are as great as their marketing is. There is definitely an element of unconscious snobbery to the whole "I only buy local" brigade. To identify exactly what value added a LBS brings to the table over online shopping in any given A vs B cost/benefit option would be a) very difficult and full of arguable assumptions, and b) self-evidently case-specific, such that it is daft to insist on one option over another. I just buy from whatever gives the best deal in a given situation - that includes goods, services and cost and also my own circumstances at the time (the baseline).

Stu

 

[hepburn]

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to offer advice, recommend bike shops and post links etc I am really enjoying all the research so far and really looking forward to test riding some bikes. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon...

 

[vickster]

You don't have to buy local, read velovoices post, she explains it extremely well. The objection is getting the advice, testrides etc and then buying the same bike online because it's cheaper. It's hardly like buying a bottle cage online!

 

[Cyclist33]

You don't have to buy local, read velovoices post, she explains it extremely well. The objection is getting the advice, testrides etc and then buying the same bike online because it's cheaper. It's hardly like buying a bottle cage online!

Actually, it is. Affordability is relative to personal circumstances.

 

[Cyclist33]

Let's not be naive. The bike shops know the market and the way the biz works. Otherwise they don't stay competitive.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Actually, it is. Affordability is relative to personal circumstances.

Not exactly, as you're not taking into account you've taken up the time & resources of the LBS in getting free advice about a bike. If everyone did that, then there wouldn't be any LBS around. I would expect part of the markup on items generally is to take account of all the timewasters.

 

[Cyclist33]

Crap. The markup has always been there since before online buying became the norm.

Come on kids, let's not imagine retailers have solely the consumers at heart.

 

[vickster]

No, they have a business to run, a livelihood to earn and people to employ

 

[Cyclist33]

No, they have a business to run, a livelihood to earn and people to employ

And a profit to make.

 

[vickster]

What's wrong with that? Unless you're a leftie communist type, and even they realised that such ideology was bollocks

Wiggle, for example, make profits too, they just have different overheads. But you can't test ride their bikes, you can't talk face to face with someone, you can't get them to troubleshoot issues after purchase or help you set the bike up optimally

As velovoice said ...

If however you are never in need of any information, advice, a hands-on look at bicycles before you buy, test rides etc, then by all means buy your bicycles online. In which case, you have no need to ever go near an LBS and can eliminate the temptation to steal from them.

That's not in dispute here, what is is making use of the services an LBS offers, in terms of time, resources, access to product and then buying online

It's like my clients getting me to write a proposal or indeed several, then taking my ideas and giving them to a cheaper competitor to do a basic job without putting any of the thinking in...it happens and it's bloody annoying

 

[Cyclist33]

Welcome to the modern world.

I don't see why you have a problem with it. You recently specced up a custom bike and had someone build it for you. Did you not seek out the best deals along the way? Did you, at any point, get a component that was sourced from beyond a ten mile radius, like for example Taiwan? It's a free market. It's not stealing. The retailers, sorry, lbs, know this. I can totally hear them as they mull over their startup biz "ooo let's do it for the love of it, to hell with making a fast buck".

Where do you buy your broccoli from? Assuming you eat it.

 

[vickster]

But I didn't get the advice from shops etc and then buy elsewhere cheaper, I bought from online retailers without taking their advice. It was built by a friend (who I gave a thank you gift to) not a shop, so I'm not sure what you are saying there? I provided all the parts, ok he used his tools, but he already had them having built his own bikes in the past.

I buy broccoli when I eat it from a supermarket, again I don't get advice from a farmer as to which broccoli to buy, ask for a taster and a free sample and so on.
Now I really don't get your point there! But then I don't think you are able to grasp why people are objecting to what was suggested earlier in the thread!

 

[Levo-Lon]

Therein lies the rub just under 5'3" .........

Just got a spesh Dolce for the wife in a 51cm she's 5'3 too
lady geometry.
ill put the bike in next post as this site is a pain adding links when quoting msg

 

[Levo-Lon]

Nice bike for 640 quid as there 800 with 20% off atm

http://www.evanscycles.com/products...esvaid=50080&gclid=CJDizbWH-MUCFSsKwwodxXQAdw