Learning French.........

[rich p]

Somewhat middle-aged or elderly women for the most part, or young women who did not come back after several weeks.

The ones in my class came every week

 

[Fnaar]

Thats some serious guarantee

Mind you, they are expensive. I'm not sure I'm keen enough to spend that sort of money but I'll see how it goes.

The good old BBC also offer online language learning FOC so I'll proabaly have a play with that first and spend some money if I do manage to persist with it

The beeb stuff is great, and free, and well-thought out. I know about this sort of stuff (I have been training language teachers for nigh on 20yrs ) and my advice would be to
a) learn as much vocabulary and stock phrases as possible
study grammar but not at the expenxse of (a)
c) the internet radio advice is good.... talk shows, that sort of thing... have it on in the background
d) read read read... French newspapers, online stuff.... don't worry too much about not understanding everything, read it through, think about what it means, try to guess, and only use a dictionary to check your intuitions or look for words you genuinely don't understand. This will get your language brain used to dealing with 'possibles'.
Bonne chance!

 

[yello]

a) learn as much vocabulary and stock phrases as possible
study grammar but not at the expenxse of (a)

Interesting, I'm glad you chipped in. My wife's lessons are very much vocab focused... she gets lists of verbs to learn for instance. That'd do my head in! It's pure rote learning to me, VERY difficult and dull. My classes are much more grammar biased and I like that because I get to grips with the mechanics of the language, I enjoy it because my mind works that way... BUT my fellow students find formal grammar difficult and a turn-off.

More notably, my wife's greater vocab is of way more use to us and it's obvious she is more 'advanced' and confident! It is a balancing act (vocab & grammar), I know, you clearly need both but getting the balance right is perhaps an individual thing and is perhaps best tuned to your own learning strengths and interests.

Panter, on the subject of night classes, don't expect too much. I tried that way when I started learning Spanish 20+ years ago... I found it frustrating. Massive differences in the abilities of fellow students, differing attitudes to home work, variable attendance (teachers included) means classes can lack continuity and hinder your own progress. I found I preferred self-study.

 

[Fnaar]

Interesting, I'm glad you chipped in. My wife's lessons are very much vocab focused... she gets lists of verbs to learn for instance. That'd do my head in! It's pure rote learning to me, VERY difficult and dull. My classes are much more grammar biased and I like that because I get to grips with the mechanics of the language, I enjoy it because my mind works that way... BUT my fellow students find formal grammar difficult and a turn-off.

I think that's just lazy teaching to be honest... I'd say that a teacher needs to present the language to students in a way that helps them to understand it, not simply expect lists of verbs to do the job... also, research shows that vocab/stock phrases (e.g. ways of greeting, ways of complaining, ways of complimenting, etc etc) are more successful than emphasising grammar ... both impt, but with more words you can get your meaning across even if grammar not 100%. Grammar will usually follow on, depending on interest and motivation of the student. Compare it to learning how to ride a bike... you can do it, fall off, get back on etc, or you can study the theory of balancing, steering, mechanics etc and then get on....

 

[Odyssey]

d) read read read... French newspapers, online stuff....

I keep trying to learn French. I'm struggling to get past the 'Bonjour' stage, tbh; I'm really not sure I have it in me to learn another language, I struggle with English! But I find the online stuff invaluable.

I did have a lot of good sites. There's one somewhere full of french vocab, grammar and phrases (from beginners to advanced, including slang if I remember correct), complete with the audio of pronunciations for every word. Another one that had various French writings (childrens stories and more) with the english translation adjacent. Unfortunately Firefox spat its dummy and I lost all my bookmarks (twice!), but if I find them again I'll post them up.

Since there does seem to be a few French speakers here, it'd be interesting if anyone knows of any decent online content. Maybe some French cycling sites even? And what Newspapers would be recommended?

Something else which I tried to get in the habit of, is when using big global sites, such as Youtube for example, using the French language version.

 

[Fnaar]

Like the youtube (and other sites) idea.
The beeb (as mentioned before) offer realy good content...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/french/

 

[Aperitif]

I keep trying to learn French. I'm struggling to get past the 'Bonjour' stage, tbh; I'm really not sure I have it in me to learn another language, I struggle with English! But I find the online stuff invaluable.

I did have a lot of good sites. There's one somewhere full of french vocab, grammar and phrases (from beginners to advanced, including slang if I remember correct), complete with the audio of pronunciations for every word. Another one that had various French writings (childrens stories and more) with the english translation adjacent. Unfortunately Firefox spat its dummy and I lost all my bookmarks (twice!), but if I find them again I'll post them up.

Since there does seem to be a few French speakers here, it'd be interesting if anyone knows of any decent online content. Maybe some French cycling sites even? And what Newspapers would be recommended?

'Something else which I tried to get in the habit of, is when using big global sites, such as Youtube for example, using the French language version.

www.velo101.com - the little bit at the top marked 'pratique' gives details of rides in the various regions - road and vtt - so you can then cross reference them with an appropriate map.
Sheldon Brown has a French-English dictionary of bike stuff - which means point and wave' at worst, but gives an understanding. Much more enjoyable to learn from a familiar start point - like the bike perhaps...

www.lequipe.fr is the obvious French sport bit - click on the Cycling linky bit and it gives comprehensive information - which can then be compared to English language sites etc - to get the gist of articles. Keep plugging away and you'll be surprised at exactly what you do know and learn!

A lot of French newspapers usually ask for a subscription if you want to go 'in depth' - there may be some - try paperboy.com and click on France etc - plenty of regional choice... - rubbish! Ignore that, try this.

 

[Odyssey]

Merci beaucoup...

 

[Twenty Inch]

I wouldn't read newspapers - the language is specific and highly compact. It can be very difficult and discouraging.

Read novels, especially ones that you like and have read in English already. They'll hold your interest.

And if you want to be taken seriously, pay as much attention to the grammar as early as you can. It will make subsequent learning much easier, and show your interlocutors that you're not learning from a free Sunday paper "French in 45 mins" course, but actually putting some effort in. Plus if it then goes dormant, a good knowledge and practise of grammar will help when you want to revive it later.

I learnt Spardeutsch - good vocab but no knowledge of the case endings. Fine on the street but when I wanted to write, or present or do anything formally my inadequacies became very apparent. I had to put in some hard work later at Uni to correct it.

I also learnt Russian ab initio, with grammar heavily emphasised from the beginning. It was completely different.

 

[Blue]

I'm just back from a holiday in Paris. I didn't do French at school so got some CD's from my local library before the holiday. I was complimented on my French 6 times during a 5 night stay - I think the locals appreciated a middle aged, grey haired, man doing his best

The CD's were from the 'Pimsleur Language Programs' series.

I was so impressed by the CD's and the fun I had when speaking French that I have decided to sign-up for a GCSE course at night tech in September as the one problem with the CD's is that you can only speak the phrases thereon. However, I found that I was able to be understood by saying things like 'you owe me zero euro' instead of 'keep the change' when tipping - I know the french for the former, not the latter!!

 

[Dayvo]

I realise that time is an issue here, but I think total immersion is the best bet.

I taught myself Norwegian 20+ years ago initially by developing a practical vocabulary, speaking in the present tense, and trying to adopt a Norwegian accent. It took a while but it worked.

I did the same when I moved to Sweden.

 

[Panter]

Merci

Many thanks for all the info and links, I have a great head start already


I've subscribed to the BBC ones for French & German (nothing like a challenge eh?) but I'll concentrate on the French first.

 

[yoyo]

My French is A-Level standard but forgotten over the years. I found our recent annual holidays forced me to remember it. I even find myself thinking in French but my brain freezes if I panic about not being able to recall vocabulary. Fnaar's suggestion of reading in French even if it is not all understood is excellent. I read some cycling sites in French and usually get the gist of most of it.

German is another story. I never studied German and the only German I knew until recently was the titles of Bach's Chorale Preludes in the Orgelbuchlein. During our recent holidays in Switzerland I picked up enough to order a meal and greet people but I am totally floored if I am asked any questions. I tried learning German via CDs etc but I found that I need the formal grammatical teaching in the way I learnt French and Latin. (It has been surprising how much is subconsciously remembered from boring lessons at school and I can still see some of the pages of the books we learnt from.) I think some grammar and vocab needs to be known prior to immersing oneself in the culture and country.