Legalities of Uploading Cycle-Cam Film - Take 9

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classic33

Leg End Member
How does this tie in with stating to the police you have photographic evidence, taken before the offence took place, of the vehicle & people involved.

In this case it was an elderly woman hit on a crossing by a vehicle, whose driver failed to stop. Pictures taken only seconds earlier showed who got in which side(who the driver was) and the registration of the vehicle.

Then you walk to where the incident occurred by which time police & ambulance are on site, camera in hand. To inform a police officer that you have the vehicle & driver on camera.

Initial reception wasn't that great, walking to an accident scene holding a camera. But upon hearing what I had, details were taken.
 

ferret fur

Well-Known Member
Location
Roseburn
Even if someone did take you on under human rights legisaltion & won. What are the likely consequences? I can't imagine the courts would consider awarding too much by way of compensation if the vid is of oafish driving behaviour.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
The likely consequence is that you'd pay a ton of legal costs. The actual damages don't really make much difference in that scenario
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
It's the Human Rights Act that is potentially the problem for uploaders.
Are you sure about that?
The Human Rights Act 1998 only binds public bodies, and not individuals, so there still is no general right to protection from invasion of privacy by other individuals in society. This means that you cannot sue your neighbour, or a private company, for invading your privacy. However, because the courts are public authorities, and so have a duty to act compatibly with the Convention rights, and because of the obligation on courts to interpret statutory law compatibly with Convention rights wherever possible, if you have some other ground to bring a claim to court, then once you are before the court you can ask the court to protect your Article 8 rights, and the court will have a duty to do so if possible.

So celebrities who consider that a newspaper has breached their privacy by publishing photographs in situation where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy have been able to go to bring an action for breach of confidence, and then ask the court, as a public authority, to protect their right to privacy. See CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION. But because of the reluctance to recognise a freestanding principle of protection from invasion of privacy, it is still necessary to pay close attention to the piecemeal protection that currently exists in general common law and different statutes in order to have a full understanding of the privacy rights you enjoy.
From http://www.yourright...nd-corresp.html
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Besides, you can only have invasion of privacy where the person has an expectation of privacy. You are in a public space, so there is no expectation of, and therefore no invasion of, privacy.

Take the cars out of it for a moment. It is perfectly legal to take photos of people (even children) in the street, even if they have not given consent. If they ask you to stop and you continue, they may have a case of harassment, but it's still not an invasion of privacy.

As a keen photographer, I make sure I'm pretty clued up about this sort of thing, in case some officious jobsworth comes along to ask me to stop taking pictures of a building (as happened once).
 

nickprior

Veteran
Location
Kelso, Borders
Besides, you can only have invasion of privacy where the person has an expectation of privacy. You are in a public space, so there is no expectation of, and therefore no invasion of, privacy.

Take the cars out of it for a moment. It is perfectly legal to take photos of people (even children) in the street, even if they have not given consent. If they ask you to stop and you continue, they may have a case of harassment, but it's still not an invasion of privacy.

Yebbut - that's taking the picture (and I agree). The OP was talking about publishing it.

And now bring the car back into it - just having the reg no only gives you the owner of the vehicle, not the driver. To get to the driver you either have to photograph/film the face, or get an admission, or rely on the court requiring to know who was the driver. If someone complains their reg no appears on Youtube, that sounds like an admission to me and they then have a bigger problem than a video on the internet!

Would be interesting to know if there have been cases where European HR legislation has been deployed successfully against individuals.
 
I personally would not post video images on You Tube or any other site. While I understand the sentiments behind the posting I feel that I would only supply the material to the Police or other appropriate body (e.g. supporting a complaint against a company driver). By posting on say You Tube you are possibly making a highly subjective/opinionated comment on the other person who has no right of reply. On occasions I have viewed some clips and struggled to identify the issue(s) being complained of.
 
OP
OP
Origamist

Origamist

Legendary Member
Are you sure about that?

No, I'm not. However, I understood that under the Act, courts must also take human rights standards into account in all cases, including those involving only private individuals.
 
IANAL (obviously) but isn't this really about defamation, rather than the human rights act? Data Protection could never apply as the information is public, the Human Rights Act really shouldn't apply for the reasons Coruscate..I mean, Dan B states...but slander\defamation...maybe, obviously depending on context and\or intent. Nothing that couldn't happen if e.g. a local rag published a nasty (and unprovable) comment. Certainly not a new interpretation of the law really. Certainly not limited to Youtube or video either.

Always prefix any comment with 'allegedly' like 'Have I got News For You' and you'll be fine
thumbsup.png
Even better, don't make stuff up that can't be backed up by your video footage.
 

campbellab

Senior Member
Location
Swindon
The main thing the article misses is that it is highly unlikely that any cyclist would be taken through civil courts for posting videos on youtube or similar. Firstly it is reasonable that before any claim went to court that it should be reported to youtube and asked to be removed.

Secondly how many people are going to pursue a claim against a private individual who is unlikely to have much money to reimburse them nor would a court award enough money to make it worth their while. Especially if the video shows them driving like a dick which would definitely prejudice most judges...
 
OP
OP
Origamist

Origamist

Legendary Member
The main thing the article misses is that it is highly unlikely that any cyclist would be taken through civil courts for posting videos on youtube or similar. Firstly it is reasonable that before any claim went to court that it should be reported to youtube and asked to be removed.

Secondly how many people are going to pursue a claim against a private individual who is unlikely to have much money to reimburse them nor would a court award enough money to make it worth their while. Especially if the video shows them driving like a dick which would definitely prejudice most judges...

He does make that point:

At the moment I don't foresee a legal challenge on this issue...
 

mumbo jumbo

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham
Interesting stuff this. I'm am a lawyer so may be in a slightly better position to comment than others but please note this is way off my normal patch! I have no expertise in this area at all. However, some observations:

1. This has nothing to do with the Human Rights Act. There is a right to privacy under the HRA but the protection it gives is against "interference by a public authority...". With the best will in the world, Gaz, magnatom et al are not public authorities. The firm whose article has been quoted (a respected national firm) should know better than that!

2. This is to do with the Data Protection Act which is regulated by the Information Commissioner. I cannot possibly do a full analysis of the DPA (all 75 sections and 16 schedules) but, in essence, the DPA regulates the processing by a data controller (or a data processor on behalf of the data controller) of data which is personal data about a data subject.


3. I could bore you witless with the details but it seems to me (a) likely that headcam vids will be data within the meaning of the DPA (b) highly unlikely that the data will be personal data (about a data subject) (c) all things being equal, processing is almost certainly involved and (d) if the video contains personal data, the person taking the video footage will almost certainly be a data controller.

4. On this last point, the DPA is clear that a private individual can be a data controller (s.5(3)(a)). Various posts seem to suggest that the DPA doesn't apply against private individuals. In my view it clearly does. However, the ICO's website does seem to focus on "organisations". I don't think that can be taken as evidence that the ICO's view is that private individuals aren't covered. It's a matter of focusing its attention where it is most needed i.e. on organisations. They're going to want to spend their resource pursuing truly awful cases of mass corporate misuse of personal data, not small beer like this.


5. As indicated above, it seems to me the key question is whether the footage amounts to personal data. This is the definition lifted from the DPA itself (my emphasis added):
personal data” means data which relate to a living individual who can be identified

(a)​
from those data, or

(b)​
from those data and other information which is in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller,

and includes any expression of opinion about the individual and any indication of the intentions of the data

controller or any other person in respect of the individual;









6. Let's take some typical situations:

6.1 Magnatom's oil tanker. We have the licence plate number. We have the company name. There is nothing about that vid which enables us to identify the living individual who is the driver. Nor (I assume) did magnatom have other info or was "likely to come into possession of " other info which would enable the driver to be identified. No personal data. No problem. The same must surely go for just about any commercial vehicle except - perhaps - for ones which say something like "Basil Brush, Sole Trader : Tel 0121 123 4567"

6.2 The close pass (not obviously a commercial vehicle). Whooosh! We have the licence plate number. From that we can get details of the registered keeper (if we have "reasonable cause" - check this out http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_193598.pdf ). But we had no clear view (or even any view) of the driver. We cannot identify the driver. Nor do we have or are likely to get info which will identify the driver. No personal data. No problem.

6.3 The confrontation. Something has happened. We have the licence plate and the driver stops "for a chat". We get a very good look on vid at the driver. I'm still very doubtful that this makes it personal data. How can we identify the living individual from the image? You can't - not without other resources / information. If you don't have it or aren't likely to get it then the vid simply is not personal data. If they're very thick, they may say their name (has this ever happened?). Hmmm - not sure about that...

7. If you don't have personal data, the whole of the DPA regime falls away. There's no need to consider any of the rest of the Act. If you do have personal data, I'm sure there will be ways of interpreting the DPA advantageously (15 sections of the Act are dedicated to exemptions) - but you'd need a proper data protection lawyer for that!

If helmet cam users are worried about this stuff and they're not already CTC members, it might be worth joining up to get the legal insurance backup. Hopefully their lawyers would jump to the defence of someone who was being given legal grief of this nature!

mj




 
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