Less aggressive positiing - sore lower back!

[Wigsie]

Hi all, I ave posted on other sectons of the site and had greatresponses to my queries so i thought i would test you guys out,

I am finally getting a new bike this month and rather than trying to find the elusive jack of all trades steed I have decided to go for a pure road bike as 99% of the time I will be on tarmac (for the next few years, untill my son is old enough to try off roading anyway) doing a long ish commute and up to 50 miles at weekends initially.

I have been hit over the last few years with lower back problems (its a small world, i am 6ft 4 and 17 stone) and most of the time its fine as i swim or play squash almost every day. I have been looking at the Trek 1.7 or Spesh Allez Elite but they seem to be very sports focused with little adaptability to a more upright position without making it look odd. my 1-1.25 hr commute (17.5 miles) is an enjoyable ride but i dont want to spend a grand for 30 minutes of fun and total speed followed 30-45 minutes of back pain from beng so hunched over.

I have been recommnded the Spesh Roubaix Elite but its coming in at £1,400 ish and its a good £400 over buget. I like the position and more comfortabe ride but is there a comparable bike for £400-£500 less?

Cheers.

 

[ajb]

Hi, I ride the 2008 Trek 1.7, I have always from day 1 found it really comfortable. I'm not as big as you, 6' & 14.5 stone, can you give it a test ride 1st ??

Alan.

 

[amrushton]

Have you thought of going to Cyclefit or someone similar and have your position assessed?

 

[Wigsie]

Have you thought of going to Cyclefit or someone similar and have your position assessed?

Cyclefit? Have been on a Turbo Trainer style thing at the LBS to size up for the 1.7 is it similar to that?

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

...

I have been recommnded the Spesh Roubaix Elite but its coming in at £1,400 ish and its a good £400 over buget. I like the position and more comfortabe ride but is there a comparable bike for £400-£500 less?

Cheers.

Are you aware of the ‘Cycle to Work Scheme’ ? Many employers will use a third part to adminster this tax benefit, the most common being Cycle Scheme, to quote them:

"Cyclescheme is the UK's number one provider of tax-free bikes for the Government's Cycle to Work initiative. It's a brilliant programme where everyone wins - employees make big savings on new bikes, employers get a healthier workforce and save money too! ".

Definetly worth investigation further.


Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[Blonde]

Cyclefit? Have been on a Turbo Trainer style thing at the LBS to size up for the 1.7 is it similar to that?

No not really. It's a full body measurements and video analysis of your pedalling technique and posture, taking into account your individual flexibility, leng lengths, foot lengths etc, as well as existing issues or injuries, and measuring power output etc. It's a great service but it is not cheap. You may feel you don't need such a service, but if you are considering racing, TT-ing or long audax/touring rides where slight imperfections in position become more apparent and can lead to injuiry then I would definitely consider it. Regarding back pain: tight hamstrings and/or glutes can also cause this or contribute, so make sure you stretch these gently after every single ride. Is the pain purely muscular or is it to do with some skeletal asymmetry? Might be worth seeing a physio if you haven't already done so and also explore some other options - for example, if you have leg length asymmetry, wedges under cleats (or in/under shoes) on the shorter leg can help reduce associated back and knee pain. Regarding the bike: look for any bike with a longer head tube (compare the frame geometries via the relevant websites) and avoid carbon fibre steerers (top of the forks). You can have the fork steerer cut to a longer length (if it has an aluminium steerer - not a carbon fibre one) and use a stem converter such as a "heads up" (http://www.serotta.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SCB&Category_Code=SSAMP) to make it look less ugly/use fewer spacers.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Agree with Blonde.

have pretty aggressive set-up low bars high seat and usually cycling has helped to cure back pain and Sciatica rather than cause it. Recently have suffered badly with the back but I think as Blonde states that this is due to body assymetry and shortening hamstrings. Did a Body-Balance class last night with serious stretching and core strength work and the back feels amazing this morning. I've just raised my bars to try a more upright position to see if this helps, but it's more to do with my gut being in the way than anything alse. I'm expecting to revert to the low bars when I've lost some weight.
If you're gonna slpend good money do a proper "Fitting" session andf also when riding make sure you stretch hamstrings and take care of core strength


(Note to Blonde... I never had a nad video as part of my "Fitting" ... I'm assuming you didn't either! ).

 

[andy_wrx]

If you're considering a Roubaix as being 'comfortable' but think an Allez is 'too racy', just look at the geometries
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=39262&eid=117
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=09Allez&eid=115

In my size (58), both have a top tube length of 582mm, the Roubaix (generally described as having 'relaxed sportive-style geometry') has a headtube length of 225mm whereas the Allez has 205mm (and the Tarmac is the same 205mm for that matter)
- 20mm difference ? Both are provided with lots of spacers under the stem, and stems you can flip into a variety of up/down positions, so there's a similar amount of adjustability.

Yes, there's other geometry differences between the two, like fork trail, wheelbase, etc which will affect the handling and make the Roubaix a little bit 'softer' than the Allez, as it's intended as an all-day sportive bike, comfortable and more stable, but my point is that there's really hardly any difference to the front-end height, it's not like one has a sit-up-and-beg upright position and the other is a radically different nose-down-bum-high 'race' position.

I've actually got an Allez set-up as my Winter/wet weather/commuter bike, with guards and rack, and a Roubaix as my Summer/best/faster/sportive bike.
The front end of my Allez is a bit higher because it's got the spacers under the stem whereas my Roubaix is actually a more aggressive position, with the spacers are all removed including the great big domed one, and it has narrower bars too.

Trek's old 1000-1200-1400-1500 series and the old Madones had a horizontal top tube, very short headtube with lots of spacers under the stem, looked rather different to the Allez, but the current 1-series and current Madones have gone for compact-design frames ("girls bikes" as L Armstrong would have it...be interesting to see what he rides at Astana this year !) with sloping top tube and much taller headtube - a 58 1.7 has 572mm toptube and 190mm headtube
http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/road/1_series/17e/

Or there's the Giant SCR range, intended to be a bit more comfortable than their TCR range, or Felt's Z-range rather than their F-range.

Bikes from most of the big manufacturers have got a bit softer, more relaxed, less aggressive in their positioning over the last few years - there are many more 'ordinary people' riding nowadays, who want bikes to be a bit more comfortable - or realistic, depending on your point of view - rather than replicas of race bikes designed for whippet-like, super-fit, super-flexible pro's.

 

[Blonde]

Using a riser angled stem, using shorter/shallower drops and repositioning the hoods/levers are more options to make the bike more comfy. See: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-10-steps-to-road-bike-comfort-18950

 

[Blonde]

(Note to Blonde... I never had a nad video as part of my "Fitting" ... I'm assuming you didn't either! ).

Yes, indeed that would probably be offered at extra cost! I have now corrected my typo.

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

...have pretty aggressive set-up low bars high seat and usually cycling has helped to cure back pain and Sciatica rather than cause it...

That position also works for me interms of alleviating my back pain, although what does and doesn't work can be a personal thing to each person of course, others may well need a shorter higher position to compensate for what may be rather complex injuries.

Most Audax/Sportive specific bikes will have a more level position and perhaps slightly shorter than a full on race bike, as you can see below this difference may actually be quite small

Specialized Tarmac range

Specialized Roubaix range

Looking at the two bikes above you will see that their Tarmac race bike range has a slightly longer and lower position than their Roubaix range, the latter is a popular choice for Sportive riding. Note their top end Tarmac S-Works models are actually slightly lower at the front end in the larger sizes than on their standard versions

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[Wigsie]

Thanks for all your great comments, exercising (and according to my osteopath, cycling) does eleviate the back pain.

I have actually just compared both total geometries for the Roubaix and Allex and the most significant differences are

Seat tube length 565mm in the Roubaix and 580mm in the Allez
Fork Rake 49mm in the Roubaix and 43mm inthe Allez
Weelbase 1038mm in the Roubaix and 1018 in the Allez

The rest seems negligable, i guess if you combine it all together it makes more difference but the top tube lengths are exactly teh same in the 61cm models.

It will purchased on the cycle scheme, just thinking about keeping the payments at least reasonably low.

 

[Wigsie]

P.S. I have kids now and as a father nad videos are a little irresponsible. ;o)

 

[andy_wrx]

15mm seat tube length I wouldn't worry too much about, because you've got a seatpost sticking out of the top of it which you can adjust up and down.

Tube angles, fork rake, wheelbase (mainly due to longer chainstays) will affect the handling, whether it's 'relaxed' or 'racy' in handling - depending on your viewpoint, 'relaxed' might mean you think it's slow-handling and sloppy, or you might think makes it good-and-stable rather than over-twitchy : the Roubaix is designed for high-mileage all-day rides, where you'll end-up tired and will not want something highly sensitive which is hard work to ride, which is a different design brief than for an out-and-out short-distance race bike
(having said that, the Allez is a big-manufacturer mass-market bike, is a lot softer than a specialist out-and-out short-distance race bike...)

 

[Randochap]

When I first poked my nose in here and posted a picture of my newest audax bike, the number of spacers I had between headset and stem offended someone's eye.

I replied that it was no bike fashion faux pas, it was the smart thing to do for long distance cycling. In fact (because I built the bike up) I had carefully considered before cutting the fork steerer tube and, in fact, to avoid offending anyone's delicate sensibilities, I had PhotoShopped out of that photo another centimetre of steerer awaiting final decision on height. Six months later, I'm finally ready to make the final cut ... but will still leave a 2.5mm spacer above the stem, just in case.

The advent of the threadless headset, though it has advantages, has created this problem, because, unlike the adjustable quill stem, once the steerer is cut there are limited options to reverse the decision. Unfortunately, with off the peg bikes, the decision has already been made for you and the only option is a "hi-rise" stem.

Again unfortunately, most shops will fob the stock setup off on all customers regardless of needs.