Lets open another can o' worms

[downfader]

I was browsing the Evening Standard website the other day and came across this picture. Pretty horrific, it thankfully doesnt show the victims (both of which I do hope recover). However there seems to be a number of idiots on there claiming the driver cant have been speeding. Seems odd considering a) where the care ended up (over a wall and into someone's garden according to the article) and b) the front axle looks it might be bent. Then theres the rather obvious c) the roof is flattened.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23866004-driver-flips-car-into-front-garden.do

So, without getting stupid, someone educate me. How the hell can that happen exactly at under the speed limit and in normal driving circumstances?

 

[HJ]

It didn't happen under the speed limit and in normal driving circumstances, stupidly in drivers is acceptable in wider society and indeed promoted by programmes such as Top Gear, modern car design allows some to get away with it and tell the tail. The real problem is the is that it is acceptable, attempts to do anything about it, such as enforcing the speed limits using cameras, are seen as being negative... :despair:

 

[661-Pete]

With very exceptional circumstances, maybe. I have twice in my life put a car into a horizontal spin. One one occasion it was brake failure on one side, on the other it was a defective tyre (company car). Luckily I didn't overturn either time, but I suppose if I'd hit an obstacle like a high kerb sideways on, I might have. Neither time was I speeding.

But I agree, speeding is surely the most likely cause here.

The comments are, unsurprisingly, turning very nasty. I don't understand the one about "anti-cyclist ranters". Nor do I understand why the tabloids invite comments on this sort of news item.

 

[downfader]

With very exceptional circumstances, maybe. I have twice in my life put a car into a horizontal spin. One one occasion it was brake failure on one side, on the other it was a defective tyre (company car). Luckily I didn't overturn either time, but I suppose if I'd hit an obstacle like a high kerb sideways on, I might have. Neither time was I speeding.

But I agree, speeding is surely the most likely cause here.

The comments are, unsurprisingly, turning very nasty. I don't understand the one about "anti-cyclist ranters". Nor do I understand why the tabloids invite comments on this sort of news item.

I've said to a number of newspaper sites in the past they they should lock off comments on such stories (doesnt stop comments in places like here obviously, but its less likely witnesses and family will find views and be influenced in any capacity)..

I know a car can hyperglide across puddles, but I've never heard of this happening below 20mph.

 

[fossyant]

Hyperglide eh............it's aquaplane......you've been reading too many bike mags.

From that photo, there is no way you would smash a car like that at 30 mph........... more like 60.........

 

[Alembicbassman]

Cars can turn over at 30mph it's all a question of momentum. 1000Kg moving at 30mph equals a lot of momentum.

Try crashing your bike at 30mph and multiply by a factor of 10 (assuming rider and bike weigh 100kg)

Modern cars are designed to dissipate the energy of a crash using crumple zones leaving the occupants relatively safe inside a rigid safety cell. That's why the bodywork gets all smashed up.

 

[Wobblers]

It can't. There's too much energy needed to cause that amount of damage for it to have happened at normal speeds - unless it was in a collision with an HGV. Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, it has to be a result of speed far above the limit.

Saying that, I hope they both make a full recovery.

 

[HLaB]

If somebody say's that they were travelling below the speed limit, they're telling porkies

 

[mcshroom]

To be fair we do not know whether the driver was speeding or not, that road could be a 40 limit and flipping on a curb at that speed if you got your angles wrong could make a real mess. Whether or not he was speeding I hope that both the driver and passenger recover and wish them both luck.

What I would suggest is that the driver may have been travelling too quickly for the conditions if the family members' comments are correct and the road was wet. I think this is part of a larger speed issue that many people seem to think that if they are below the speed limit then they are driving at a safe speed for the road whatever the conditions.

Around here there are a lot of single lane roads with 60 limits. No-one drives them at 60 because it would be suicide, however when I have lived in built up areas many drivers seem to have abdicated their responsibility to drive at a safe speed for the conditions and instead just blindly follow the speed limits, even if that means flying along a foggy motorway at 70.

 

[mr_cellophane]

 Tim Stock, who saw the crash, said the driver lost control on the bend.

Looking the road in street view, there is only one "bend" that could be and I would say it was impossible to flip a car along there if you were keeping to the speed limit.  More worrying is that the road is part of the national cycle network.

 

[brokenbetty]

I have seen someone flip a car by hitting a curb under the speed limit (though stupidly fast for the corner she tried and in the event failed to make). She didn't squish the roof though, just ended up rocking around upside down like a beetle.

 

[Halfmanhalfbike]

I have seen someone flip a car by hitting a curb under the speed limit (though stupidly fast for the corner she tried and in the event failed to make). She didn't squish the roof though, just ended up rocking around upside down like a beetle.

When I was a foolish youth I owned a Mark 2 Golf GTI (the best car I've ever had). I used to enter local car club rallies through the forests of Scotland. One day I was going through a series of bends at roughly 40mph when the front nearside touched the banking. Car flipped over in an instant. Just shows the amount of momentum a car can have even at low speeds

No way was it as damaged as the car in the photo. We just flipped it back over and went on our way. According to the reports it looks like the driver lost it on a minor bend it the road, hit the keb and then rolled over into the garden. Doing well over 60 IMHO

 

[Bollo]

Hyperglide eh............it's aquaplane......you've been reading too many bike mags.

As long as it wasn't astroglide!!!

From that photo, there is no way you would smash a car like that at 30 mph........... more like 60.........

Trudat. Swerved to avoid a puddle? Mmmmmmmm. I'm happy to wait for the accident investigation.

 

[downfader]

Aquaplane... yeah sorry, dont know why I said hyperglide... bit tired last night.

 

[BenScoobert]

I used to recover cars for the police, amongst uninsured scrotes and the regular unroadworthy we recovered the crashes for investigation and I recovered 2 cars which had rolled at low speed. 1 hit a solid bollard exiting a roundabout and the other clipped a parked car.
both totally at fault, its not so uncommon