Lights - morally vs legally

[Frood42]

Not sure that this has been settled, legally speaking. AFAIK it's never been tested in court with regard to stop lines. Is the offence cycling over the line, or could it be interpreted as applying if you push it over the line on foot? I don't know.

Are you a pedestrian when you dismount your bicycle? What if you picked it up and carried it over the stop line?

You have some interesting points, but personally I would just wait for the red light, it would give me a chance to get my breath back and get a sip of water.

My opinion is that if you are in the road and you decide to push your bike through the red light then you are RLJ'ing.
If you want to get off and walk on the pavement through the red light then that is your choice, but you should re-join the road in a sensible place and not directly after the red light.

If I am still on the road and pushing my bike a short distance I would not see myself as a pedestrian, but then I wouldn't be hanging around on the road. I would either be getting on the pavement, or if there was no pavement I would be looking to cross to the right hand side of the road to face on coming traffic as I walked along the road.

Unfortunately alot of the world around us relies on an image put forward, so I would rather give an image of obeying the rules to appease the majority of motorists rather than being seen as an impatient person who cannot wait for a few seconds for the lights to change.

RLJ'ing on a bike, either riding through on the bike, or still being on the road when you walk it through is not seen in a positive light, no matter the technicalities.

I would rather try and promote cycling positively rather than negatively where I can.

But we do live in a diverse place and everyone has their own view on things, and some could not give a damn anyway.
Those who don't give a damn just want to get home without having to engage the brain, that is why they don't like cyclists, as we make them come out of auto mode and engage their brains, which must hurt them quite a bit!

 

[Kookas]

Not sure that this has been settled, legally speaking. AFAIK it's never been tested in court with regard to stop lines. Is the offence cycling over the line, or could it be interpreted as applying if you push it over the line on foot? I don't know.

Are you a pedestrian when you dismount your bicycle? What if you picked it up and carried it over the stop line?

The thing is, I'm pretty sure bikes aren't the only vehicle that can do that. What if a motorcyclist switches his engine off and pushes his bike over the stop line? Isn't that the same? ;o

On that note, what if a driver gets out and pushes his car over the line?

 

[benb]

To clarify - I am only tempted to do this when the right turn filter is on green - so there couldn't possibly be any conflict with other traffic streams. It's only phased like this to stop massive space-hogging cars from clogging the junction ahead, so it galls a bit that I'm being inconvenienced due to their selfish choice of vehicle.

Having said that, I probably will continue to wait as I have done, because I'm a wuss who doesn't like confrontation if anyone had a go at me about it.

 

[benb]

The thing is, I'm pretty sure bikes aren't the only vehicle that can do that. What if a motorcyclist switches his engine off and pushes his bike over the stop line? Isn't that the same? ;o

On that note, what if a driver gets out and pushes his car over the line?

I don't think either of those are counted as a pedestrian, whereas someone pushing their bike is, in some circumstances. As I said, it hasn't been tested in court, so I don't know the legal situation.

 

[Frood42]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36

Where a traffic sign, being a sign—
(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or
(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191955.pdf

I believe Bikes are considered vehicles and carriages.

Morally, I wouldn't do it.

 

[benb]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36

Where a traffic sign, being a sign—
(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or
(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191955.pdf

I believe Bikes are considered vehicles and carriages.

Morally, I wouldn't do it.

But if you're pushing it, are you propelling it? Or does propelling only apply when pedalling. What if you pick it up and carry it? You're not considered to be propelling it when walking with your bike along a pavement.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

But if you're pushing it, are you propelling it? Or does propelling only apply when pedalling. What if you pick it up and carry it? You're not considered to be propelling it when walking with your bike along a pavement.

A person pushing a bicycle is a pedestrian.

There's one set of lights (a long wait for an eventual right turn filter) where I opt for riding to the pavement to my right, dismount, push my bike to the ped crossing point of the road I wanted to turn right into, walk across that and remount to ride off.

I've never been challenged by police who've seen me do this, and if I ever were, I'd be relying on Crank v Brooks to support my actions.


GC

 

[Frood42]

But if you're pushing it, are you propelling it? Or does propelling only apply when pedalling. What if you pick it up and carry it? You're not considered to be propelling it when walking with your bike along a pavement.

If you are pushing it on the road then I would have to say it is being propelled, the same as a car being pushed, that car being pushed also needs to obey the traffic signals, but then this is on the road and not on a pavement.

A pavement is a different matter, as it's not a road, and generally you don't have heavy vehicles and traffic on it, so the rules will differ.
Although of course you do get some idiots driving and parking on the pavement...

Picking up and carrying the bike is an interesting scenario, and if I saw you doing that at a red light, I would look twice and laugh my arse off...
I have no response to that scenario, other than it would be a waste of my time to do it, it's a grey area, but I suspect that you would still be propelling your vehicle.

 

[benb]

It's an interesting thought experiment though.