London Midland - Cycle Logos (an update)

[domd1979]

There's been further discussion between London Midland and DfT about putting cycle logos by the doors that give access to the wheelchair / bike area on their newer units. The DfT Accessibility Unit are absolutely adamant that their advice is that a bicycle logo should not be placed alongside a wheelchair logo, because it could somehow imply wheelchairs aren't being given absolute priority which in their view could amount to discrimination. Obviously common sense and the fact that other train operators have logos by the doors suggests otherwise (but remember we're talking about DfT here....). It is also inconsistent with the fact low floor buses are virtually all labelled up with wheelchair / pushchair logos for the low floor area of the bus. Now the very same Accessibility Unit had a hand in the PSV Accessibility Regs, low floor buses have been with us for more than ten years, and I've never heard of them (or anyone else) taking operators to task over it.

Anyway, the upshot is that LM are sticking to DfT's advice because they don't want to be seen to be going against it (since DfT pay them and specify their franchise I suppose). So, the sticking point is DfT advice, and not the train operators.

 

[upsidedown]

It's irrelevant in the Midlands anyway.
Stourbridge to Birmingham you wouldn't get a Brompton on.
Bromsgrove only has a platform big enough for 2 carriages, and there's no money to increase it, fantastic eh?
I know it's been explained why they don't have guards vans anymore, but it would save an awful lot of hassle.

 

[hackbike 6]

Lucky you have a railway there with the way Beecham Closed them in the 60's.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/march/27/newsid_4339000/4339761.stm

 

[PBancroft]

A couple of years ago I took my bike on the train for a few days when I was working in some far-flung office. I couldn't even get my handlebars through the entrance to that little shoebox they had up for bike storage.

Carrying more than a small bag onto a train is a joke. I actually quite like travelling by trains - on the whole I find them convenient, well timed, albeit expensive. But if I can leave stuff behind rather than carry it on board I will.

 

[domd1979]

Don't think there's any one reason, but DfT appear not to have given the same advice to other TOCs (or not yet at least). There's also the variation in rolling stock between TOCs - for instance, Cross Country predominantly operate Voyagers where cycle and wheelchair areas are separate. Similar applies to Virgin's Pendolinos. As far as Arriva Trains Wales go, they're answerable to the Welsh Assembly who specify their franchise, and not the DfT.

Why don't the other TOCs share the same fear that LM do?

 

[HLaB]

A couple of years ago there was a big hoo ha here by some disability body; I cant remember the full details, it was something to do with spaces being allocated for both bikes and wheelchairs and in their opinion if a bike arrived 1st there was no room for them. I've never actually seen a wheelchair and a bike on the train at the same time but I hope that if I did a cyclist would give up their space. Anyway I don't think this is an issue any more, I think the disability group won their case and at all times a space must be allocated specifically for wheel chairs on the Fife Circle trains.

 

[domd1979]

Do trains not already carry 'give priority to wheelchairs' signage? I think the Cross City stock does.

Most do, including priority seating signage near all doors.

It sounds like a poor defence to me. Sign on or sign off, with no other sensible option. It's easy to just pass the blame on to the DfT, and suggests a disappointing attitude towards the cyclists who LM claim to be committed to.

It might appear "easy to blame the DfT" etc, but that really is the case, it is their advice that is the sticking point. If the DfT changed their advice, I don't see that LM would have any problems with bunging the logos up. The DfT have a lot of sway over TOCs - there is a lot of micro-management, state involvement in the running of the railway is probably far greater now than it ever was under BR.

 

[spen666]

Most do, including priority seating signage near all doors.





It might appear "easy to blame the DfT" etc, but that really is the case, it is their advice that is the sticking point. If the DfT changed their advice, I don't see that LM would have any problems with bunging the logos up. The DfT have a lot of sway over TOCs - there is a lot of micro-management, state involvement in the running of the railway is probably far greater now than it ever was under BR.

No, you miss the key wording which is it is ADVICE from the DfT, not a ruling. LM can safely ignore the advice if they wish

 

[GrahamG]

That really doesn't surprise me, I've recently been dealing with the most positively anal jobsworth in the DfT that I've ever come across. Wasters.

 

[Ivan Ardon]

No, you miss the key wording which is it is ADVICE from the DfT, not a ruling. LM can safely ignore the advice if they wish

No-one ever got sacked for following the DFT's advice. It'll take someone prepared to stick their neck out to get this changed.

What are the chances of that happening?

 

[domd1979]

Advice it might be, but I'm struggling to think of an example where a TOC has ignored "advice".

No, you miss the key wording which is it is ADVICE from the DfT, not a ruling. LM can safely ignore the advice if they wish

 

[CotterPin]

Are there any TOCs who have bike signs next to wheelchair signs?

Capital Connect on the Thameslink route.

 

[CotterPin]

It would seem so - I took one of their trains on Sunday. There is a cycle and a wheelchair sign outside the relevant carriage. Inside there is a notice telling cyclists they will have to give up the space if a wheelchair user boards. If Capital Connect can do it, why can't London Midland - or, more worryingly, if London Midland don't, when will Capital Connect stop providing the space?

 

[domd1979]

Only if they're aware of it, or only if they've been given the same advice. Its a little rash to assume any consistency....

So Capital Connect are ignoring DfT advice, are they not?

 

[domd1979]

Right.

I've asked for clarification directly from them in charge, will report back when I hear anything.