Long bendy lorries - yikes

[J4CKO]

Realistically these have a limited market, the weight has to be the same even though its bigger, it is good for carrying voluminous light stuff in large quantities and if it carries twice as much stuff like that it saves one journey in a normal truck, to be honest I would rather have less bigger ones on the road and just keep the f*ck away from them.

I should imagine it would need some additional training, I marvel at the skills of HGV drivers moving through town centres and find them better than average even if I have to surpress a scream on the A road I use when one overtakes.

We all need goods, truckers keep it moving, generally pretty safely compared to the average motorist, a lot of the incidents are due to cyclists making rash moves around HGV's, ok, sometimes its a HGV driver being an arse but not always, we cannot get them off the roads, it isnt going to happen, too many people buying too much stuff, we need education of all parties and decent segregation where it has been a problem and stiff penalties for anyone seen to be flouting the laws, before they kill someone, or before they inadvertently or rashly put themselves in danger.

 

[upsidedown]

We all need goods, truckers keep it moving, generally pretty safely compared to the average motorist, a lot of the incidents are due to cyclists making rash moves around HGV's, ok, sometimes its a HGV driver being an arse but not always, we cannot get them off the roads, it isnt going to happen, too many people buying too much stuff, we need education of all parties and decent segregation where it has been a problem and stiff penalties for anyone seen to be flouting the laws, before they kill someone, or before they inadvertently or rashly put themselves in danger.

I nominate this for post of the day, and it's only half past twelve. Well done J4CKO, nicely put.

 

[4F]

Night time. Loads of capacity for freight on the rails, without affecting passenger traffic.

That's fine in theory for full container loads so what do you suggest for the smaller loads of 1 - 2 pallets which are currently trunked on the roads overnight between the national pallet hubs ?

A lot of the problem for the rail network is the antiquated rail system with restricted movements over viaducts etc. This is a big problem on the East Anglian rail network with a single viaduct between Colchester and Stratford gateway to the busiest container port in the UK. As it is rail trains are having to leave the port part loaded to ensure they meet their time slot as there is no flexibility in the network and nor will there be unless billions are spent on it.

 

[upsidedown]

As it is rail trains are having to leave the port part loaded to ensure they meet their time slot as there is no flexibility in the network and nor will there be unless billions are spent on it.

Then spend billions on it, tens of billions if necessary, money doesn't seem to be a problem these days as long as it's bailing out London's banking or transport systems. Increase tube capacity by 30% and use will go up until you're in the same situation again. Better to spend the money on proper infrastructure that will have benefits for the whole country, instead of messing around the edges. I guess there wouldn't be any votes in that though.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

The rail network simply doesn't have the infrastructure any more to cope with anything other than block loads of freight. Time was when every village had a goods shed copnnected to the railway and the railways were obliged by law to carry any freight offered to them (until 1962, I think): not any more. Those sinle pallet loads would be utterly uneconomic to transport by rail, and you'd still need to shift them by road - often quite long distances - to get them where they were going.
Surprisingly, the road transport industry deals with single pallet consignments quite efficiently. We used to spend the afternoon collecting freight from our customers around the Black Country, then consolidate it all onto three or four trailers back at the yard. These trailers would then go to a central hub to be unloaded, and where lorries came in from all over the country to unload freight from their local areas. Everyone would then wait two or three hours before picking up any freight to go back to their neck of the woods, where it would be loaded onto smaller trucks for delivery. I grant you that there's no funamental reason we couldn't operate a similar system based on rail transport, but it would require a good deal more infrastructure than currently exists.

 

[jonesy]

Without going over arguments already made in similar threads in Campaign and P&L, RT and others are quite right that super-lorries aren't intended for use in town centres, they would be primarily for trunking on the motorway network, for loads that are constrained by volume not weight, enabling fewer lorries to carry the same load. It would be possible to define a restricted network on which they'd be permitted. There are plenty of arguments in favour and against, for those wanting to see in detail I suggest you read the report on them published last year:
Summary:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/rmd/project.as...rojectID=12704
Full report:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/r...fects_if_Permitted_in_the_UK_Final_Report.htm

As for putting freight on rail, it is important to bear in mind that very little of what currently travels by road ever did go by rail. Even in rail's heyday, most of the freight it transported was bulk goods like coal, steel, ore, clay, limestone etc. Lorries are now carrying goods that never existed on journeys that are extremely hard to transfer to rail, even for part of the journey, for reasons already given. In terms of carrying freight we should see lorries as being equivalent to buses and coaches, i.e.. carrying goods pretty efficiently on roads that are mostly jammed with cars and, increasingly, vans. So if we are going to spend even more billions on the rail network, it might be better to focus that on getting more of the cars off the road rather than the lorries. People can after all make multi-modal trips much more easily than a pallet, as they can do the transfer themselves, not needing specialist handling equipment.

Bendy buses are being withdrawn in London, at very great expense, simply because Boris has been told by the Evening Standard that people hate them, not because anyone has come up with an evidence based case that withdrawing them and replacing them with a greater number of normal buses will do anything to improve safety. TfL recently commissioned a study of cyclist fatalities in London covering much of the period during which bendy buses were in operation, significantly this report identified the very real threat presented by lorries, but bendy buses (as distinct from buses and coaches in general) don't get a mention.
http://londonroadsafety.tfl.gov.uk/...research_police-collision-files_2001-2006.pdf

Pedestrian barriers are being removed for the reasons others have given- they trap cyclists, they constrain pedestrian movements, they encourage drivers to go too fast, and because it has finally been recognised that streets have a wider function than simply being conduits for motorised vehicles. Hackbike can try slowing down.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

In terms of carrying freight we should see lorries as being equivalent to buses and coaches, i.e.. carrying goods pretty efficiently on roads that are mostly jammed with cars and, increasingly, vans. So if we are going to spend even more billions on the rail network, it might be better to focus that on getting more of the cars off the road rather than the lorries. People can after all make multi-modal trips much more easily than a pallet, as they can do the transfer themselves, not needing specialist handling equipment.

Yes indeed, well said. It's surprising how many car drivers go quiet when you put that point to them after they've just told you that what's on the back of your lorry should "go on the railway."