Lost for Words

[vernon]

Younger son has spent the past three years dossing about claiming that his need for an income is minimal and there's no need to sign on.

• He spent three months of a year out bombing around Europe - I had no issues with that.
• He spent the reminder of the year doing a few hurs of call centre work and gigging with his band - I had no issues with that.
• He lasted until November at Leeds Met after his year out - I did my nut. He didn't make an effort.
• He spent the remainder of the next two years gigging and steadfastly refusing to sign on - I despaired though I did enjoy his gigs.

Tonight when I got in from work he announced that he's going to back Leeds Met to do a music technology degree. He only applied a fortnight ago. He kept quiet because he wasn't sure of getting accepted.

When I asked what prompted him to apply after refusing to contemplating ever doing a degree, he said the hike in tuition fees eliminated any doubts - it was now or never.

Thank you Tory party for your deeply divisive act of educational vandalism. It had an unexpected consequence in our household.

Now get defeated and pave the way for a less socially divisive government.

 

[just jim]

Best of luck to him - hope the itchy feet holds off!

 

[Night Train]

My friend and neighbour is just completing his music degree. It has been really hard work and tough going. I am surprised at the effort he has put in to get through on top of gigging with two bands and running a recording studio and being a landlord and refurbishing his house.
He studies and practices sax and composition to nearly midnight most nights.
Fortunately I built him a sound proof recording studio a couple of years ago.

 

[vernon]

It will be strange having a house empty of offspring in September as our daughter also starts university at the same time.

The household bills will drop dramatically but the domestic student loans are expected to overtake the savings by a comfortabe margin.

Early retirement has been relegated to an aspiration.

 

[fossyant]

Vernon - tell them to pay their loans off mate - only way. PT Jobs for them, Student loan, and some hard work.

Why should you be in debt....? Really !

 

[cyberknight]

Vernon - tell them to pay their loans off mate - only way. PT Jobs for them, Student loan, and some hard work.

+1

And you cant really blame the government for introducing fees , its a slash and burn policy to stop the fire that was left burning by the worldwide decision to keep the banks afloat ,any party in office would be faced with the same choices that mean the country gets deeper into debt or we do something about it.

My view is that Higher education is something that should be earned not handed out .Before you start flaming my view my brother works in Durham uni labs and has a phd , he worked hard for it , my parents could not afford to put him through uni but he managed it and now is a very respected chap in his circles .

 

[vernon]

Vernon - tell them to pay their loans off mate - only way. PT Jobs for them, Student loan, and some hard work.

Why should you be in debt....? Really !

If only it was that easy!

Both offspring are attending universities which either swamp the town's population or have such a huge population that the job markets have no hope of sustaining even 10% of the potential demand.

The cost of living loans are swallowed by accommodation costs leaving a deficit to feed, clothe and entertain.

My kids are frugal but I'm not prepared to see them attempt to survive on a diet of dust and rainwater.

I'm not making excuses for them but I'd prefer them to expend their energies on their studies and some social life rather than be a slave to a minimum wage. They have a working life after graduation to get used to that notion.

 

[asterix]

My kids are frugal but I'm not prepared to see them attempt to survive on a diet of dust and rainwater.

Do what the Scots did: send 'em off each term with a sack of porridge oats. They'll be better off than living on pot noodles..

 

[Yellow Fang]

What are the transferrable skills of a music technology degree? It's a competitive market, sound engineering I believe. The only sound engineers I've met were as poor as church mice and had to work long hours, when there was any work. Still, if it's something he's very enthusiastic about then he should go ahead and do it.

 

[marinyork]

Vernon - tell them to pay their loans off mate - only way. PT Jobs for them, Student loan, and some hard work.

Why should you be in debt....? Really !

A part time job only really helped in this aim before the top-up fees system came in (unless you got a large bursary). The government doesn't expect large numbers of students to ever pay off their loans and many others not until the final years of the window.

My view is that Higher education is something that should be earned not handed out .Before you start flaming my view my brother works in Durham uni labs and has a phd , he worked hard for it , my parents could not afford to put him through uni but he managed it and now is a very respected chap in his circles .

That's fine, if you've thought about what it means. Under this model, we'd probably be back by several decades and a ball park figure of about 5% of the population going to university. Might even be lower than that if you take this ideology to extremes (especially with the new fees regime).

 

[cyberknight]

A part time job only really helped in this aim before the top-up fees system came in (unless you got a large bursary). The government doesn't expect large numbers of students to ever pay off their loans and many others not until the final years of the window.



That's fine, if you've thought about what it means. Under this model, we'd probably be back by several decades and a ball park figure of about 5% of the population going to university. Might even be lower than that if you take this ideology to extremes (especially with the new fees regime).

Instead of having degrees in everything that can be practically useless and devalue the worth of a degree.It might not be a bad idea as those who get degrees under this system will be people who really want to study and get some where rather than doing a degree so they can go and party for a few more years.

Vernon i am not saying your children are like this of course i am sure they are motivated and wish to succeed and of course we all wish them luck.

 

[marinyork]

Instead of having degrees in everything that can be practically useless and devalue the worth of a degree.It might not be a bad idea as those who get degrees under this system will be people who really want to study and get some where rather than doing a degree so they can go and party for a few more years.

Seems a rather costly social experiment to me, I can think up more exciting and less severe ones. We could have a garden levy, where anyone that has boring gardens has to pay £1000 a year in tax. Or a no-cycling tax, where people have to take out a loan of £9000 per year for every year between 18 and 21 where they don't cycle a certain number of miles.

 

[cyberknight]

Seems a rather costly social experiment to me, I can think up more exciting and less severe ones. We could have a garden levy, where anyone that has boring gardens has to pay £1000 a year in tax. Or a no-cycling tax, where people have to take out a loan of £9000 per year for every year between 18 and 21 where they don't cycle a certain number of miles.

My point is that higher education opens up opportunities that lead to greater career potential , i believe that these should be paid for by the person who will benefit from it rather than just another freebie.Universities have grants and bursuries for those would not be able to otherwise afford it in the case of gifted students who cannot otherwise afford to study ( how do you think my brother got to where he is ?)
If you believe differently then of course you are entitled to your opinion but i think you are going off on a tangent or are you just being facetious?

 

[vernon]

If folk benefit from their degrees they pay back through enhanced taxes from their enhanced income.

You can't get a simpler payback system than that.

If they don't earn a lot they spend longer paying it back.

Works just like the current system.

 

[Adasta]

Student debt isn't real debt.

It's not the same as having the mortgage. The government are welcome to take minimum payments from my account for the rest of my life. I am not obligated to pay it back; bailiffs will not be sent round. Based on the notion of Time Value of Money, it doesn't make any sense to pay off a student loan, since the capital you receive (the loan itself) can be placed in areas where you gain either gain a higher rate of interest or, with said capital, procure yourself a lower rater of interest on a longer-term debt (e.g,. having a larger deposit to drive down the interest rate of a mortgage).

The way the economy is going, he won't have to pay his loan back cos he won't find a job that pays enough. I still have paid a penny. So...every cloud.