Make Cyclelanes Work Petition

[Tommi]

So to be specific, which of the three views do you consider strange?

1. That Boris Bikes are common on the streets of Central London?
2. That one school doing a good job does not mean the other 1.999 are doing a bad job?
3. That the Strand is not clogged by motor vehicles along its whole length?

Regarding 2) you were using one school as an example how Bikeability is consistently worth much more than building infrastructure. Do you have the evidence to support your claim that Bikeability (or equivalent) training has consistently increased the number of people cycling in amounts that is relative to the amount of money spent / training provided?

 

[Red Light]

If you were presented with data showing data about one school but knew that there should be data about many schools available what would you read into it.

When I wrote "http://www.britishschoolofcycling.com is a good example" I naturally assumed people would understand it was a good example, not the only example.

The time (6 years) I lived in London I recall the Strand being pretty much a carpark most of the time.

Seems my perception agrees with Streetview's image and others of the Strand taken, I would judge from the shadows at about 14:00




I note no comment about Boris Bikes on Central London streets? Is that because you can't bring yourself to agree with me on that one?

Thus I agree with the view of StuartG.

Of course you do. Others can make their own minds up on the evidence. But I recognise that whatever the evidence what you believe will trump it every time.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

When I wrote "http://www.britishschoolofcycling.com is a good example" I naturally assumed people would understand it was a good example, not the only example.



Seems my perception agrees with Streetview's image and others of the Strand taken, I would judge from the shadows at about 14:00

[attachment=4665:Screen Shot 2011-08-08 at 21.47.50.png]


I note no comment about Boris Bikes on Central London streets? Is that because you can't bring yourself to agree with me on that one?


Of course you do. Others can make their own minds up on the evidence. But I recognise that whatever the evidence what you believe will trump it every time.

I have no experience of Boris Bikes so can't comment.
As for the street view one photograph is not evidence. I have seen many views of my area that do not tally with my personal experience of the roads.

 

[Red Light]

I have no experience of Boris Bikes so can't comment.
As for the street view one photograph is not evidence. I have seen many views of my area that do not tally with my personal experience of the roads.

So of my three views you considered strange we now find on one you have no idea whether its strange or not, the second you appear to have accepted is not strange after all and the third you think is still strange because you consider a randomly picked Google Streetview photo in the middle of the day is not representative of a situation you described as "pretty much a car park most of the time"

Here's another Google photo taken at a different time and date - probably around 09:00 judging by the shadows.



Still doesn't look much like a car park to me.

On that basis I am quite happy to have what you consider strange views because mine turn out to coincide rather better with reality than yours.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So of my three views you considered strange we now find on one you have no idea whether its strange or not, the second you appear to have accepted is not strange after all and the third you think is still strange because you consider a randomly picked Google Streetview photo in the middle of the day is not representative of a situation you described as "pretty much a car park most of the time"

Here's another Google photo taken at a different time and date - probably around 09:00 judging by the shadows.

[attachment=4666:Screen Shot 2011-08-08 at 23.46.13.png]

Still doesn't look much like a car park to me.

On that basis I am quite happy to have what you consider strange views because mine turn out to coincide rather better with reality than yours.

My original question was

Have you ever considered that it is you who holds strange views. What do you consider the probability of that is?{/quote] You didn't answer but immediately went on the defence. I answered your questions ignoring one (which you took to mean acceptance of - Is that how you would interpret statistical data?).

I ask my original question again and this time a straight answer would be appreciated. I did you that courtesy by answering you questions.

 

[Red Light]

My original question was

Have you ever considered that it is you who holds strange views. What do you consider the probability of that is?

You didn't answer but immediately went on the defence. I answered your questions ignoring one (which you took to mean acceptance of - Is that how you would interpret statistical data?).

I ask my original question again and this time a straight answer would be appreciated. I did you that courtesy by answering you questions.

There is a very high probability that some people will find my views strange - you for example. Others can make their own judgements. Am I bothered? Not really.

But I'm still curious as to what you actually thought strange about the three views you were commenting on. It seems there is good evidence for my views against no more than your personal beliefs to the contrary. But, hey-ho, we've been there before.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

There is a very high probability that some people will find my views strange - you for example. Others can make their own judgements. Am I bothered? Not really.

But I'm still curious as to what you actually thought strange about the three views you were commenting on. It seems there is good evidence for my views against no more than your personal beliefs to the contrary. But, hey-ho, we've been there before.

I didn't say I found your views strange, neither did I say I agreed with them. I simply asked you what the probability was that it was your views that were strange. You read into that what you wanted to. I did find that interesting.

 

[Red Light]

I didn't say I found your views strange, neither did I say I agreed with them. I simply asked you what the probability was that it was your views that were strange.

You said more than that. In response to my saying Stuart G held some strange views at odds with reality viz:

Boris bikes are good but, on central London roads, (as opposed to docking stations), still a rare sight.

Good to hear but one London school? I think that suggests that Bikeability is not working for the other 1,999.

The Strand in London is an example. Four solid clogged lanes all day.

You replied:

Have you ever considered that it is you who holds strange views. What do you consider the probability of that is?

Which is either a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question or is suggesting that its my, not Stuart's, views which are strange.

So come clean. Do you think Stuart G's three views are at odds with reality or mine and why? Or was it a wife beating question after all?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You said more than that. In response to my saying Stuart G held some strange views at odds with reality viz:

Boris bikes are good but, on central London roads, (as opposed to docking stations), still a rare sight.

Good to hear but one London school? I think that suggests that Bikeability is not working for the other 1,999.

The Strand in London is an example. Four solid clogged lanes all day.

You replied:



Which is either a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question or is suggesting that its my, not Stuart's, views which are strange.

So come clean. Do you think Stuart G's three views are at odds with reality or mine and why? Or was it a wife beating question after all?

I will ask one more time so you are very clear "Have you ever considered that it is you who holds strange views. What do you consider the probability of that is?"

 

[Tommi]

I will ask one more time so you are very clear "Have you ever considered that it is you who holds strange views. What do you consider the probability of that is?"

Can you, Red Light, also answer my question? Getting tired of repeating myself.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Can you, Red Light, also answer my question? Getting tired of repeating myself.

It seems he doesn't like to answer any questions he can not back up with a mountain of statistical data and reports.

 

[dellzeqq]

Well you certainly have some strange views of cycling in London that are at odds with reality viz:

I've got to put a word in here. You're being very rude about Stuart who is a practised and resolute cyclist, not at all unused to cycling in London. And London to Paris in two days on a (three speed then one speed) Brompton is not for softies.

Oh - and Bikeability. Waste of cash. In fact I wouldn't spend a single penny of taxpayers money on cycling. Tax car parking spaces to the max, raise fuel duty through the roof, shut down rat runs and double or treble the number of bus lanes and give permissions for the redevelopment of high streets and the job's done.

 

[Mad at urage]

You said more than that. In response to my saying Stuart G held some strange views at odds with reality viz:

Boris bikes are good but, on central London roads, (as opposed to docking stations), still a rare sight.

Good to hear but one London school? I think that suggests that Bikeability is not working for the other 1,999.

The Strand in London is an example. Four solid clogged lanes all day.

You replied:



Which is either a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question or is suggesting that its my, not Stuart's, views which are strange.

So come clean. Do you think Stuart G's three views are at odds with reality or mine and why? Or was it a wife beating question after all?

RL, you hae to remember that many on here are not conversant with debating shorthand, thus "a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question" may well mean nothing at all to AFS or Tommi. They may simply not understand that the question asked is so leading as to be meaningless.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

RL, you hae to remember that many on here are not conversant with debating shorthand, thus "a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question" may well mean nothing at all to AFS or Tommi. They may simply not understand that the question asked is so leading as to be meaningless.

I fully understand what the wife beating question is about. A trick to get someone to imply they are / were a wife beater. That was not the aim of my question. It was not a loaded question either. It was what it was and will remain a straight forward question.

 

[Tommi]

RL, you hae to remember that many on here are not conversant with debating shorthand, thus "a "when did you stop beating your wife" sort of question" may well mean nothing at all to AFS or Tommi. They may simply not understand that the question asked is so leading as to be meaningless.

I'm quite aware of the wife beating question. I was asking if Red Light has evidence to back up his claim about Bikeability, something he's demanding of bike lanes, how is that leading?