Making the switch

[Thegreatthor]

Well, it’s been a while coming but I’ve decided it’s time for a change.

I love riding audax, but for a while despite trying everything I’ve found it increasingly difficult to get comfortable on an upright. I’m alright for 200k, though usually the last 20 is a bit of an ordeal with backside and hands. 300 is as far as I dare go.

i’ve decided that I love the cycling more than the suffering so I’m going to try a bent.

I don’t expect to be going out riding 100’s of miles straight off the bat but I hope to train this year and tackle LEL next year.

ive found a bachetta giro which is going to be a bit of a project and my first one. I’ve got my high on a high racer as well. After so long on a road bike I’ve kind of convinced myself only 700c wheels work properly!

Any tips, best bikes for purpose, how to get bent legs etc?

 

[Scoosh]

Miles, Miles As you're an Audaxer - Kms, Kms ... and a few more, with some hills for fun !

Starting off is the trickiest bit to get sorted - but you'll know all about that ! Spinning a lower gear to avoid knee injury is essential too.
More seriously, it will probably take a while to get used to the different handing characteristics of a 'bent - tight turning, not being able to see as clearly at junctions (you're sat further back and can't lean your body forward to get that extra, necessary view), using mirror(s) rather than needing to turn your head/shoulder check, all the while marvelling at the comfort, comfort and comfort of your flying armchair !

Many others will probably be along to give you some sensible suggestions but they'll probably still come down to the Kms thing.

 

[Tigerbiten]

My understanding is ........
On a recumbent the greater shoulder-hip-knee angle means you don't engage your gluts as much.
This forces you to use your quads more for power.
This slight shift in muscle use is the reason you need to build up your "bent" legs.
The main downside of this shift is your max sustained power output is down slightly on a bent.
It's not that important at speed where the aero advantage more than outweighs this slight power loss.
But it's below around 12 km/h where the aero advantage is basically zero that this starts to hurt you.
Plus you cannot get out of the saddle to engage your muscles differently, hence your legs also tend to fatigue quicker.
Add these points together and I think you get the main reasons why bents tend not to climb steep hills as fast as DFs.

Luck .........

 

[simongt]

Another point is the handlebar position; scorpion or hamster. Will make a big difference to distance comfort. Most of the 'bents I've seen to date appear to have hamster bars, but for my two penn'orth, scorpion bars offer more relaxed riding as your arms & hands are down in a more relaxed position which is better over distance.
Yer pays yer money....

 

[Thegreatthor]

Cheers everyone, just got a bachetta giro rolling frameset. I’m building it up this week. I’m assuming that because it’s slower uphill and faster downhill a triple is a good option. The bars (standard I think) feel very comfortable when I’m on itm certainly better than a DF. I’m very much a newbie when it comes to recumbents. Is there a website with images of the different styles, bars?

 

[Tigerbiten]

Cheers everyone, just got a bachetta giro rolling frameset. I’m building it up this week. I’m assuming that because it’s slower uphill and faster downhill a triple is a good option. The bars (standard I think) feel very comfortable when I’m on itm certainly better than a DF. I’m very much a newbie when it comes to recumbents. Is there a website with images of the different styles, bars?

My thinking is that you want a wider range of gears on a bent vs an upwrong.
Also due to the chain length big-big and small-small are useable options.
I'm coming from a bent trike base so no real minimum gear.
Some options going up in range .......
A long cage derailleur will cope with roughly a 48-50t difference.
Split 50/50 gives you a 53-39-30 triple then match it to an 11-36 cassette for a 5.8x range.
Or something like a 48/36/24 triple if you want to bias down for slightly more range.
A 50/39/30 road triple and a Rohloff gives you 18 unique gears.
A 53/40/30 road triple and a SA hub gives you 5 unique chainrings, match it up with a 11-28 9 speed cassette and you have a silly range of gears.
My setup is twin chainrings on a Schlumpf HSD and a Rohloff for 24 unique gears and a 19x range, 9.4"-179.4" .........

As for handle bars.
HP Velotechnik main site ( https://www.hpvelotechnik.com/en/ ) has pictures of the three main types of bars on their bikes.
Go to one of their bike config pages and scroll down to handlebar option for a view of the types.
Don't ask which is best as I can only cope with under seat steering, so never tried the other two.

Luck ..........

 

[Thegreatthor]

Had my first ride today😀😀. 20 miles. Massive smiles all the wau round.

2 reflections, Kojak’s don’t roll like Conti TL5000’s

20inch wheels seem a bit flighty when you get near 30mph.

one final thought, when you fall off it’s like rolling out of bed!

 

[404 Not Found Anywhere]

Kojaks are not known for being particularly fast... in fact in bigger sizes standard Marathons seem to roll better.
Flightiness is I suspect just a matter of acclimatisation. I’ve had my Fuego up to 40mph, my Moulton over 50 (17” wheels!) and both were as steady as a rock but 30mph on a bent feels much faster than on an upright anyway.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Audaxer and recumbent rider. Like you, used to ride my road bike on audax. Longest audax I’ve ridden on my recumbents is 600km. I was due to up the ante in 2020 but we know what happened to that year.

You will be slower to start over audax distance but not by much. When I first started riding recumbent my times were about the same over 100km and about an hour slower (elapsed) over 200km.

I am now faster on recumbent over all the audax distances I‘ve covered so far. I am even faster on my recumbent compared to my road bike on many local uphills. This is on grades up to about 7%. Above that grade, getting out the saddle on the road bike will pull out a lead.

The beauty is the comfort , as you go up the audax distances. You climb off after 100,200,300,400,600km and apart from tired legs you feel the same. In other words perfectly fine in your non padded clothes. The longer the audax the more the recumbent comfort delivers an advantage as you don’t deteriorate as long as you look after your legs.

This brings us on to legs. It is correct that a recumbent places different emphasis on the quads, glutes, and hamstrings. It will take time for your legs to adapt to this change. No getting round that. But they will change, they will get stronger, they will get better at not fatiguing.

Power. You will be able to generate same power as road bike once legs have had a period of adaption. I have a smart turbo and have compared efforts in the same week on both recumbent and my road bike. I’m able to match the power I can deliver on road bike.

In my opinion hill climbing comes down to how much power you can produce and how much the all up weight is. So provided your recumbent all up weight isn’t massively heavier than your all up road bike weight. Your climbing times should be similar other than over 10% or so.

Leg fatigue. You can’t get out the saddle to compensate for tired muscles. So use a lowe gear and learn to turn the cranks quicker. Shorter cranks may help with this.

Practicalities. Work out how to carry your audax gear on your recumbent. Things like bottle cage or pump mounts aren’t always possible. So work this out over next few months as audax restarts.

Commit. The best way to adapt to it and be ready for audax is commit. Once I committed to riding my recumbent as my number one choice that’s where I really saw my self improve, including average speeds and confidence. So every bike ride, jump on your new recumbent if practical.

I use a mtb bike triple on my recumbent. Big ring 44t but will change to 46t when that wears out. More than enough if you spin away.

Tyres. For a faster 406 tyre look at the Continental contact speed or the Panracer Minut Lite.

 

[Thegreatthor]

Audaxer and recumbent rider. Like you, used to ride my road bike on audax. Longest audax I’ve ridden on my recumbents is 600km. I was due to up the ante in 2020 but we know what happened to that year.

You will be slower to start over audax distance but not by much. When I first started riding recumbent my times were about the same over 100km and about an hour slower (elapsed) over 200km.

I am now faster on recumbent over all the audax distances I‘ve covered so far. I am even faster on my recumbent compared to my road bike on many local uphills. This is on grades up to about 7%. Above that grade, getting out the saddle on the road bike will pull out a lead.

The beauty is the comfort , as you go up the audax distances. You climb off after 100,200,300,400,600km and apart from tired legs you feel the same. In other words perfectly fine in your non padded clothes. The longer the audax the more the recumbent comfort delivers an advantage as you don’t deteriorate as long as you look after your legs.

This brings us on to legs. It is correct that a recumbent places different emphasis on the quads, glutes, and hamstrings. It will take time for your legs to adapt to this change. No getting round that. But they will change, they will get stronger, they will get better at not fatiguing.

Power. You will be able to generate same power as road bike once legs have had a period of adaption. I have a smart turbo and have compared efforts in the same week on both recumbent and my road bike. I’m able to match the power I can deliver on road bike.

In my opinion hill climbing comes down to how much power you can produce and how much the all up weight is. So provided your recumbent all up weight isn’t massively heavier than your all up road bike weight. Your climbing times should be similar other than over 10% or so.

Leg fatigue. You can’t get out the saddle to compensate for tired muscles. So use a lowe gear and learn to turn the cranks quicker. Shorter cranks may help with this.

Practicalities. Work out how to carry your audax gear on your recumbent. Things like bottle cage or pump mounts aren’t always possible. So work this out over next few months as audax restarts.

Commit. The best way to adapt to it and be ready for audax is commit. Once I committed to riding my recumbent as my number one choice that’s where I really saw my self improve, including average speeds and confidence. So every bike ride, jump on your new recumbent if practical.

I use a mtb bike triple on my recumbent. Big ring 44t but will change to 46t when that wears out. More than enough if you spin away.

Tyres. For a faster 406 tyre look at the Continental contact speed or the Panracer Minut Lite.

Cheers Ming, that is just about spot on as I see it.

I've got the Bachetta bag that fits on top of seat and hangs directly behind it. It’s really good and not to heavy. It should hold enough for a fair trip I think. I’m planning to get some sort of bladder. It could go on top of the bag but I’d like to find somewhere lower to mount it. I’m wondering about a small frame bag that could hang under the frame.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

A top tube bag may also fit right behind the steering.

 

[Thegreatthor]

Another 20 miles done.

40 altogether. Am I ready for clipless I wonde?

 

[Thegreatthor]

I think the rolling resistance is quite high on those Kodak tyres. Which tyres would give me a quicker ride on 26 front, 20 rear?

 

[byegad]

Gear range is critical. You simply have to have a low enough gear for the steepest hills you'll ride, when you are tired!
I had an AZUB-4, 20" front 26" rear. With a triple up front, hub 3 speed with 9 on the rear, the 81 speed range was 150" to 15". I found 15" was a slow as I could balance. It was heavy, like me, and great fun. Fast, at 50mph down hill and still pedalling, and slow, at 2.5mph up big hills.

 

[PaulM]

I think the rolling resistance is quite high on those Kodak tyres. Which tyres would give me a quicker ride on 26 front, 20 rear?

What width are you after? How much comfort? For the rear, maybe a folding Panaracer Pasela ProTite. The 32mm width is probably quickest. You might also be able to get hold of the 37-406 Pasela for the front. Otherwise a folding Maxxis DTH 38-406 for the front. Think I bought mine from Fawkes cycles.