Michael Mason Inquest

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Pale Rider

Legendary Member
And this is justice?

It's justice as we currently have it.

I have seen hundreds of crown and magistrates' court cases conclude.

Many times I have seen someone who I firmly believe to be guilty walk free.

On t'other hand, I can only think of one or two cases in which a defendant has been convicted who I thought could well have been innocent.

Hence the phrase: "Better that 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man suffer."

Apparently coined by Blackstone who had a big influence on the criminal justice system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
And this is justice?
Well, it at least has the potential of achieving it. Unlike the situation where the police won't even take the case to court, because they're worried they might lose.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Leaving aside the extract from your memoirs, my point is that killing someone with a car seems to be the way to get away without even going to court merely by quoting an honest belief no matter how erroneous.

The driver's police interview in this case does appear to assist her, although I would need to see it in full to make a firm judgment.

Simply saying "I didn't see him" will not work in many cases, I've seen drivers convicted who, when it comes down it, didn't say a lot more than that.

Worth bearing in mind the death by offences are still relatively new, death by careless was only enacted in 2008.

Prior to that date, this driver could not have been charged with anything.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Well, it at least has the potential of achieving it. Unlike the situation where the police won't even take the case to court, because they're worried they might lose.

Not so, for reasons that have been repeated many times.

But let's look at it from DI Mason's point of view.

He is tasked with a heavy responsibility, deciding whether to push this case forward or not.

He did not shirk that responsibility, he took his decision despite knowing fine well how it would be received in some quarters.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to shirk that responsibility and let the CPS take the hard decision.

That he didn't do that - and other things he's done in this case - indicate to me he is what I would call a proper polis.
 

Lemond

Senior Member
Location
Sunny Suffolk
And, once again, I am telling you that, despite your insistence to the contrary, what you appear to be is an apologist for drivers who kill.
Still taking this at face value, what is the law in question in this case?

Oh well, I guess you can keep repeating yourself if it keeps you happy. You'll still be wrong, but then they do say ignorance is bliss.
 

Lemond

Senior Member
Location
Sunny Suffolk
I offered to take you seriously and you flunked it

Oh no. You don't take me seriously? And I failed some sort of test, too? And there was me, so desperate to want you to like me. I mean, you seem such a nice guy, what with all the nice things you've said.
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Coroners have seem many accident reports and have the power to have them looked at again.

This coroner did not, so it's an indication the accident report was done correctly within the guidelines.

You say you would have no complaint if it had gone to the CPS.

They are no more likely to say this case passes the full evidence test than the police are.

Your problem is you have decided on a verdict - 'guilty' - with no reference to any evidence or how the system works.

You are then faced with the uphill task of trying to make everything fit into your desired outcome.

It never will.

But you will get more and more frustrated trying to make it so.

Yet again your argument boils down to an appeal to authority and a claim that I, and indeed everyone else who has been picking holes in your arguments have already decided guilt. It might surprise you to learn that I, if this case had got to court, and had been on the jury, probably would not have found the defendant guilty. You are perfectly entitled to hold your preconceptions and prejudices. But you have no rights at all when it comes to having any expectation on not having them called out.

You have failed in any sense to explain just why the police was adequate. Quite the reverse - you have entirely failed to account for the weight place on one witness who speculated (and it is pure speculation, not fact) that Mr Mason was "lost in a sea of lights". You have not supplied any explanation at all as to why the police did not check what the visibility of a cyclist in similar conditions would have been from the driving seat of that Nissan Juke. You have erronously equated driving straight and without deviation at one single point to be evidence of competency. In fact, you've ignored all the arguments that myself, Adrian and others have made. Instead, you've simply said that this is correct, "because system". In which case, the system is failing the needs of vulnerable road users, not to mention justice. But even that does not explain why the police did not bother to find out whether or not Mr Mason was readily visible: one simple check would have confirmed or denied whether or not a good case could be made. Not to mention that I, and doubtless many other cyclists would like to know the results so as to determine whether or not we need to make changes. I doubt any procedural system would have ruled that out. But no. Instead, a bland assurance about the system. That somewhat precludes any hope of improving matters. And that is just not good enough.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Further upthread @CopperCyclist said: "@Pale Rider and others who have given the reasons why it didn't go to CPS are correct, accurate and put the case forward well. Under our current system, Michael Masons case had the 'correct' outcome.
"It's a policy and outcome I disagree with strongly."

I agree the reasons the case did not proceed have been put accurately and well by me and others.

I am not going to repeat those reasons yet again.

Moving on, is there any sign of the private prosecution?

The longer the family leave it , the harder it will be to mount.
 
Sentence1, lecture 1 of the law course I attended. "The law is not about justice it is about the law"

Ha, the trainer at my first day at Ryton all those years ago said something similar. It was along the lines of:

" The law is a set of rules that dictates what you can and can't do. Justice is what is applied to people who do not follow those rules. You will be shocked in your career by the paradox of how the two never seem to go together."
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Michael Mason's daughter, Anna Tatton-Brown did a feature on whether the legal system is biased against cyclists on the Victoria Derbyshire slot on BBC News this morning. The link is here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06jt5ds/victoria-derbyshire-26102015 (Starts at 27 minutes in)

There's a shorter clip that's been shown since as part of today's general news but I think it's all covered in the link above.

EDIT: trawling through the recording, I see that there's also a panel discussion at 01:29:00
 
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glenn forger

glenn forger

Guest
Purcell is in court September sixth:

http://www.cyclinguk.org/news/20160803-cyclists-defence-fund-prosecutes-driver-mason-case


By March of this year, as the second anniversary of Mick's death approached, CDF's Justice for Michael fundraising appeal had raised nearly £60,000, allowing CDF to instruct solicitors to commence a private prosecution of Ms Purcell for the offence of causing death by careless driving. The proceedings have now been issued in Westminster Magistrates Court, with an initial court hearing listed for 6 September.
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Purcell is in court September sixth:

http://www.cyclinguk.org/news/20160803-cyclists-defence-fund-prosecutes-driver-mason-case


By March of this year, as the second anniversary of Mick's death approached, CDF's Justice for Michael fundraising appeal had raised nearly £60,000, allowing CDF to instruct solicitors to commence a private prosecution of Ms Purcell for the offence of causing death by careless driving. The proceedings have now been issued in Westminster Magistrates Court, with an initial court hearing listed for 6 September.

Is that a TMN to me (or am I on your ignore list)?

GC
 
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